Hello,
I tested 10 different ammos last weekend and Fed UltraMatch & Lapua Midas+ were the best. Any comments about which one I should furtur test and buy more of? This stuff is really expensive so I can't just buy several lots of each.
Thanks
Fed Ultra Match or Lapua Midas+
Moderators: pilkguns, Marcus, m1963, David Levene, Spencer
Batch Testing .22LR Ammunition
Are you going to buy several cases from the batch that works best? If you're not going to buy a case or two of the best batch, don't bother. If you are, test Eley TENEX, too.
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Thedrifter
- Posts: 280
- Joined: Thu May 05, 2011 8:26 am
- Location: San Antonio, TX
the federal UM22 or Ultra match is the same as RWS R-50 i shoot both threw my annie and got a 1/2" - 5/8" group at 100 yards off a rest if you look the federal box over carefully you will see it's stamped r-50 and is imported from germany by federal.
just food for thought the RWS is just a tad cheaper by abot 10 Cent a box but that add's up
just food for thought the RWS is just a tad cheaper by abot 10 Cent a box but that add's up
Never tested either so I can't say.matchguy wrote:Thanks.
How about comments of Fed Ultra Match vs Lapua Midas+? More available? More consistant lot to lot etc.
At Eley, the ammunition is manufactured on one of two production lines. After QA testing, it gets a label. The TENEX parameters are pretty narrow, so how it works in your barrel is, I think, a function of how similar your barrel is to the ones Eley uses for QA testing.
You are correct. The flap says "R50_Stanze". But it says the same thing on Federal Gold Medal Match. Why is the same thing on both grades of ammo? What does "R50_Stanze" mean? Has anyone ever confirmed UM22 is the same thing as R50?Thedrifter wrote:the federal UM22 or Ultra match is the same as RWS R-50...if you look the federal box over carefully you will see it's stamped r-50 and is imported from germany by federal.
The R50 I shot didn't do as well as the UM22 but it was within my top 3.
matchguy,
"Stanze" in this usage would refer to the manufacturing line. In simpler terms "Stanze" is a press, punch or die.
Offhand, Federal it seems has been in and out of the high end ammo business for 15 years. I recall them making some stuff in the mid 1990s but I guess it was not profitable. Where I am going with this is they might be here this year but not next, reboxing RWS or someone else. Eley, Lapua and RWS have been around just about forever it seems. Personally I would go with one of those three.
Also for practice ammo Eley has about 5 levels right now. I just tested and bought a case of Eley Club that shoots very nicely in two of my rifles. If your gun likes Lapua be aware that SK and Wolf are reboxed Lapua so that might be an avenue to get some Lapua features at a better price.
After that it is really up to you and the rifle to decide which one you really like the best.
Good luck,
'Dude
"Stanze" in this usage would refer to the manufacturing line. In simpler terms "Stanze" is a press, punch or die.
Offhand, Federal it seems has been in and out of the high end ammo business for 15 years. I recall them making some stuff in the mid 1990s but I guess it was not profitable. Where I am going with this is they might be here this year but not next, reboxing RWS or someone else. Eley, Lapua and RWS have been around just about forever it seems. Personally I would go with one of those three.
Also for practice ammo Eley has about 5 levels right now. I just tested and bought a case of Eley Club that shoots very nicely in two of my rifles. If your gun likes Lapua be aware that SK and Wolf are reboxed Lapua so that might be an avenue to get some Lapua features at a better price.
After that it is really up to you and the rifle to decide which one you really like the best.
Good luck,
'Dude
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Thedrifter
- Posts: 280
- Joined: Thu May 05, 2011 8:26 am
- Location: San Antonio, TX
I Have read it somewhere else alsomatchguy wrote:Has anyone ever confirmed UM22 is the same thing as R50?
but still in the top three eh? thats a similar problem you get with batch variation what kind of groups did you get and at what distances, also how did the groups look? clover leaf? stringing? same placement consistency?matchguy wrote: The R50 I shot didn't do as well as the UM22
I tested both of the Wolf's and they were the worst of the test and was about the same as Lapua Center-X. CCI Std Vel & Fed Premium Gold (cheap stuff) shot far better than Wolf. The Lapua Midas+ came in 2nd best and that's the reason I was trying to get reasons to get either that or Fed Ultra.justadude wrote:If your gun likes Lapua be aware that SK and Wolf are reboxed Lapua so that might be an avenue to get some Lapua features at a better price.
When you tested these various ammunitions how many different lots did you test?
Due to differences from lot to lot you will find different lots of the same ammo will behave differently.
I recently tried two different lots of Eley Club. In my rifle one lot was very mediocre while the other was very good. I bought a case of the very good lot number. Now the next shooter with a different rifle might find the lot I found to be mediocre to be just spectacular and the one I liked to be poor. This points out why you cannot judge a particular ammo on just one box.
The Wolf you tested might not be any good or you just had a lot that did not do well in your rifle. Likewise, perhaps you had a lot of Fed Ultra that really matched up well with your rifle.
The important thing here, for testing to work, you need to get not only the same brand but also the same lot number.
'Dude
PS The Eley Club I was testing, this was for practice ammo hence I was only going to take the time with two different lots. If I was higher up on the ladder looking for match ammo I would have tested a minimum of three and probably more like five different lots of the same ammo
Due to differences from lot to lot you will find different lots of the same ammo will behave differently.
I recently tried two different lots of Eley Club. In my rifle one lot was very mediocre while the other was very good. I bought a case of the very good lot number. Now the next shooter with a different rifle might find the lot I found to be mediocre to be just spectacular and the one I liked to be poor. This points out why you cannot judge a particular ammo on just one box.
The Wolf you tested might not be any good or you just had a lot that did not do well in your rifle. Likewise, perhaps you had a lot of Fed Ultra that really matched up well with your rifle.
The important thing here, for testing to work, you need to get not only the same brand but also the same lot number.
'Dude
PS The Eley Club I was testing, this was for practice ammo hence I was only going to take the time with two different lots. If I was higher up on the ladder looking for match ammo I would have tested a minimum of three and probably more like five different lots of the same ammo
I completely agree with the 'Dude.justadude wrote:Due to differences from lot to lot you will find different lots of the same ammo will behave differently.
I recently tried two different lots of Eley Club. In my rifle one lot was very mediocre while the other was very good. I bought a case of the very good lot number. Now the next shooter with a different rifle might find the lot I found to be mediocre to be just spectacular and the one I liked to be poor. This points out why you cannot judge a particular ammo on just one box.
The Wolf you tested might not be any good or you just had a lot that did not do well in your rifle. Likewise, perhaps you had a lot of Fed Ultra that really matched up well with your rifle.
The important thing here, for testing to work, you need to get not only the same brand but also the same lot number.
'Dude
If you find a particular batch of ammunition that shoots well in your rifle - regardless of the brand or grade - buy as much as you can afford.
Many years ago I had an exceptional batch of Eley Standard (bottom of the range at the time).
It was suggested to me that on occasions, Eley would manufacture to fill an order - if that order was for "Standard" but there was none in stock they would do a run. If it shot like Tenex, it still went out graded as Standard because that was what was needed.
K.
All 3 ammos in my top 3 of 10, Fed Ultra, Lapua Midas+ & R50 grouped at 50yd between .335 - .355 5 shots. All cloverleaf groups. 10-15 mph wind.Thedrifter wrote:but still in the top three eh? thats a similar problem you get with batch variation what kind of groups did you get and at what distances, also how did the groups look? clover leaf? stringing? same placement consistency?matchguy wrote: The R50 I shot didn't do as well as the UM22
Fed ultra was smallest (.335) and if I took out the 1 flyer from each group the 4 shot groups were half that size. All the groups weren't in exactly the same place though but weren't far off.
The Lapua Midas+ groups (.345) had no flyers but groups were larger. All groups were in the same place. The average for all the groups were about the same for each group.
The R50 had the largest groups (.355), each with a flyer and were like the Fed Ultra, not in exactly the same place but not that far off.
Did you pull a patch between ammo types when testing and also give it at least 20-25 rounds to settle in with the new ammo before shooting shots for judging?
Personally I wouldn't even test that expensive ammo in my rifle in the event it shot great I would think I needed that ammo all of a sudden. I just can't see the difference in value on paper when on the bench. The SK+ I shoot is under and inch at 100m and the CCI SV is only a little over an inch at 100m. This off of makeshift rests no less. Seeing how I shoot all offhand that is plenty accurate for me.
It is all subjective to each persons rifle of course. But IMO you are better off spending the money on more ammo to practice with to become a better shooter than just occasionally shooting some high $ ammo on match days. I've shot a master class score with CCI SV before and seen ROTC guys with cases of Eley Red Box that couldn't get out of B class for score.
Te more expensive ammo should at least give you confidence and that is worth something. I know I use the SK+ as my match ammo even though it is cheap compared to UM, Tenex etc but I know it shoots where its aimed and if I miss it was all me. With the CCI SV now and then you get one where you just can't be sure if the round was consistent. That doesn't happen enough to me to stop buying it lol.
Bo
Personally I wouldn't even test that expensive ammo in my rifle in the event it shot great I would think I needed that ammo all of a sudden. I just can't see the difference in value on paper when on the bench. The SK+ I shoot is under and inch at 100m and the CCI SV is only a little over an inch at 100m. This off of makeshift rests no less. Seeing how I shoot all offhand that is plenty accurate for me.
It is all subjective to each persons rifle of course. But IMO you are better off spending the money on more ammo to practice with to become a better shooter than just occasionally shooting some high $ ammo on match days. I've shot a master class score with CCI SV before and seen ROTC guys with cases of Eley Red Box that couldn't get out of B class for score.
Te more expensive ammo should at least give you confidence and that is worth something. I know I use the SK+ as my match ammo even though it is cheap compared to UM, Tenex etc but I know it shoots where its aimed and if I miss it was all me. With the CCI SV now and then you get one where you just can't be sure if the round was consistent. That doesn't happen enough to me to stop buying it lol.
Bo
recently I did the same testing in my 1913. 50 yd and 100 yd with Wolf ME and MT, SK Rifle Match, Fed Match 711B, Ely Black Box, and Midas+.
Midas + was the best with Fed Match 711B and SK Rifle Match equal for being second. Ely BB was third in overall group size at both distances.
Shot a regional SB prone match and discovered that either the Fed Match 711B or the SK Rifle Match is more than enough for the 50 yd target. That ammo would clean that target.
At 100 yds, the Midas + was the best bet. Groups in low wind were easily inside the X ring. No surprises in the box.
Just my experience to pass along.
Bob
Midas + was the best with Fed Match 711B and SK Rifle Match equal for being second. Ely BB was third in overall group size at both distances.
Shot a regional SB prone match and discovered that either the Fed Match 711B or the SK Rifle Match is more than enough for the 50 yd target. That ammo would clean that target.
At 100 yds, the Midas + was the best bet. Groups in low wind were easily inside the X ring. No surprises in the box.
Just my experience to pass along.
Bob
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supermatch
- Posts: 22
- Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2010 11:13 am
ammo
You tested 10 different lots and are only going to buy 2 bricks? Is this for English matches or American prone? 2 Bricks will last 2 weeks in American prone.
My suggestion is to skip testing and buy Red Eley. Hell, I knew a guy who would take 10 lots to the range to test and if he couldn't find one that worked he threw away the barrel and had a new one put on.
My suggestion is to skip testing and buy Red Eley. Hell, I knew a guy who would take 10 lots to the range to test and if he couldn't find one that worked he threw away the barrel and had a new one put on.
In Addition
Benny is dead on, folks.
First of all, I've seen a few entries here that seem to be comparing test runs of 'brands' of ammo rather than multiple lots of EACH brand of ammo. You can't just buy a willy-nilly smattering of various brands together, test them, and come to any true (brand) winner.
If you want to truly test brands against each other, you need to put several lots of EACH brand on the table, test and measure, find your finalists, re-test the finalists, find your (individual brand) winner THEN do the same thing for ALL the other brands. Comparing your finalists against each other will give you better ground to make your purchase decision.
The funny thing is...is that out of all the lots you test in one testing period, you may very well find that Eley Red ends up being your huckleberry...where on the next time around, R50 may be your best friend. It all has to do with what ammo you have in your possession at the time of testing.
It should be your primary goal to establish relationships with a solid group of distributors who will notify you of lots of various brands that are outperforming others around the country (that have at least a case or two remaining on the shelves). You make every effort to NEVER order test lots willy-nilly. Too expensive and the guessing game is unacceptable. Benchrest guys are the real freaks. There are even times when a hot benchrest guy will buy up the last of a lot that is extremely purchase-worthy. I have had great success contacting those folks from time to time JUST TO GET A BRICK. That may not be enough to shoot day-long NRA matches, but it sure lasts thru a few USA Shooting matches (only 60 shots at a time) OR finishing off the competition in a match where the x-count of the last match will decide the victor.
Just try to remember that your barrels will perform brilliantly with the right lot of any given (high quality) brand. Obviously, some brands perform brilliantly more often. Right now, I have wide collection. My collection includes some Eley BLUE & RED, a couple bricks of some fantastic Midas+, and a crapload of super nail-drilling R50. To date, from 2010 to 2011, R50 has been outperforming every other brand, but that doesn't mean that I won't find some Eley Red this fall or some more Lapua that gives me a warm fuzzy.
Good luck. Bart
First of all, I've seen a few entries here that seem to be comparing test runs of 'brands' of ammo rather than multiple lots of EACH brand of ammo. You can't just buy a willy-nilly smattering of various brands together, test them, and come to any true (brand) winner.
If you want to truly test brands against each other, you need to put several lots of EACH brand on the table, test and measure, find your finalists, re-test the finalists, find your (individual brand) winner THEN do the same thing for ALL the other brands. Comparing your finalists against each other will give you better ground to make your purchase decision.
The funny thing is...is that out of all the lots you test in one testing period, you may very well find that Eley Red ends up being your huckleberry...where on the next time around, R50 may be your best friend. It all has to do with what ammo you have in your possession at the time of testing.
It should be your primary goal to establish relationships with a solid group of distributors who will notify you of lots of various brands that are outperforming others around the country (that have at least a case or two remaining on the shelves). You make every effort to NEVER order test lots willy-nilly. Too expensive and the guessing game is unacceptable. Benchrest guys are the real freaks. There are even times when a hot benchrest guy will buy up the last of a lot that is extremely purchase-worthy. I have had great success contacting those folks from time to time JUST TO GET A BRICK. That may not be enough to shoot day-long NRA matches, but it sure lasts thru a few USA Shooting matches (only 60 shots at a time) OR finishing off the competition in a match where the x-count of the last match will decide the victor.
Just try to remember that your barrels will perform brilliantly with the right lot of any given (high quality) brand. Obviously, some brands perform brilliantly more often. Right now, I have wide collection. My collection includes some Eley BLUE & RED, a couple bricks of some fantastic Midas+, and a crapload of super nail-drilling R50. To date, from 2010 to 2011, R50 has been outperforming every other brand, but that doesn't mean that I won't find some Eley Red this fall or some more Lapua that gives me a warm fuzzy.
Good luck. Bart