Aluminum vs. Original?

[Guest]

I'm in the market for an Anschutz 1813, 1913 or 2013 (if anyone is selling, email me...). I've started back in club shooting after a 20 year hiatus (and shot a 280 first time back with my friends 1813; what a great sport!).

In my research, I've found that the aluminum frames are "en vogue" now. MY question isn't about what they look like, but can anyone speak to the shooting experience between alum and the original walnut stocks? Balance different? Better off hand feel?

I can see that there may be more flexibility and "scalability" in the stocks.

Thoughts?
ER

[GaryN]

I was told that some shooters prefer wood for thermal reasons.
Wood does not get HOT or COLD if you are shooting in HOT or COLD ambient temperature.

I shot a match in Southern Calif, and it was over 105F. And I can imagine it would be just as hot or hotter in other locations.

At another location and with another gun again over 105F, I had to stop shooting. The temp of the metal pistol got so hot I could not hold the pistol. And the trigger was HOT. Hmmm I guess that is an advantage for the polymer frame pistols.

If you are careful, you won't touch the aluminum frame.
I think all or most of the contact points on the aluminum stocked rifles are wood or plastic, but there may be metal things that you still have to touch.

[tsokasn]

Another thing that happens is alteration in tightening torques of stock/action in different temperatures(espesially in fullbore)
This is were allu and composit stocks have the advantage over wood stocks as allu is not affected in these temperature(and moisture) differencies

[Guest]

From personal experience I found that I shoot slightly better with a metal stock. I switched from a bedded 1813 to an System Gemini Ultra about four years ago.

Many shooters still do very well with wood stocks (Martynov, McPhail, Tamas, and Uptagrafft spring to mind) and if a particular designs fits you well, there's no reason not to go with walnut. However some shooters prefer the greater range of adjustment that metal stocks have

The main advantages of aluminium is that the fore-end and butt can be a lot slimmer. For smaller shooters slim alu fore-ends can allow a more natural height position, as there is less stock between the hand and barrel line. This isn't so important for taller shooters depending on their preferred position; I'm 6' 1" and could do with a little more depth.

For standing I'm told that the slimmer butt can let the rifle sit closer to the chest without getting in the way (prone shooter here, so apologies for what may be a poor explanation).

Tim S
Taunton UK

[Hemmers]

As Tim says, being stronger, metal is a bit more versatile. You can develop thinner fore-ends, which get the barrel-line lower and closer to the hand, and give you more room to adjust for standing. You can also play around with weights and balance a bit more than with the wood stocks.
Metal stocks won't move as much with a change in humidity/temperature, but also will be more comfortable to shoot in extreme temperatures.

For what it's worth, Matt Emmons shoots with an old Anschutz alloy stock (not the new Precise stocks), but uses a raiser block to lift the fore-end which effectively makes it the same depth as a wooden stock. I think he used a wooden stock in 2004 as well, so the barrel-line argument is certainly open to discussion. And as Tim says, wooden stocks are still not uncommon on the world circuit.


At the end of the day it's what you're comfortable with.
I shot a double ton last night with a 1913 Supermatch in the wooden stock (shame I can't manage that outdoors!). I have nothing against metal stocks, and would like to try more of othem out as I have limited experience of them from behind the butt, but the point is it's perfectly possible to shoot to a high standard with "old fashioned" wood, provided the stock fits you of course!

Best thing to do is go to your club and lay your hands on as many different stocks as you can beg and borrow off other members and try them all for weight/feel/balance before parting with any hard-earned.

[petzi]

I agree with all the other posts and would add that the biggest difference I see is in pistol grip adjustability in that with aluminium the grip can be moved independently of the stock body ,not so with wood.Having said that there is the exception in the Walther Anatomic.This would be more important for standing, however if u shoot only prone I dont reckon it matters so much.As for which shoots better I find no difference whatsoever.Good luck

[erenner]

Thank you all for your responses! Gives me a lot to consider. I'm now officially "old" (per my son, and some degree, my wife), so am becoming acquainted to the alluminum stocks.

So far, no one in the league I'm in has an alluminum stock for me to experiment with. However, I can understand that the stock is much more customizable than legacy stocks. I assume/hope that the stock can be dialed in and settled, as I had done with my wood stocks (i.e. just change my hand stop, cheek rest and butt hook between positions) and would not mess around with cant of the grip and God knows what else.

Have any of you shot with an metal stock with an (older) match 54 barrel/action set in it?
thanks,
ernst

[tsokasn]

A friend of mine shoots only prone with a 54 action, in a Keppeler stock.
Haven't heard him complaining about this combo.

[Westerngriz]

I will throw my .02 in here.
Its commonly believed that wood laminate stocks have a finished rifle that is more accurate than aluminum. That being said I shoot an aluminum stock. I use a Stopper stock( I am hoping to switch to a MEC) and it shoots fine.
The thing that aluminum stocks have going for them is the adjustments. But there is a wood stock that has the same adjustments as an aluminum. The Walther Anatomic. It is available for the anschutz round action.
matt

[RobStubbs]

I would start by saying wood and metal both feet quite different in the shot. I didn't like the feel of the metal walther stock, much rather my old 1813. I am now planning on changing it to the walther annatomic, which is at least as adjustable as a metal stock.

Rob.

[Jeffrey]

Am I reading the price right at approximately $2500 without shipping and duty to the US?

I don't consider a laminate stock to be made out of wood. After working on several I have come to the conclusion they are made mostly out of glue. I don't know if they impregnate the wood with glue but it just doesn't have the flavor of wood. They are strong and heavy but really not wood.

I have an aluminum stock and I cannot fault its performance. It is more adjustable then any stock I have used to date and even if I gain 100 pounds I can still make it fit. I have never even held an Anotomic but I think my stock has a wider range of adjustments.

[Guest]

Jeffery - I assume that's the prototype you've been cooking up? Doesn't seem to have a great deal of cheekpiece adjustment...which is the only adjustment I've ever had trouble with. I like the offset link design which echoes highpower tubegun design - its very flexible

-Mark

[Jeffrey]

Mark,
Your correct in that the picture is of the prototype. The cheek actually has more height adjustment then the the Anschutz has and over twice the left and right adjustment they have. As you can see that odd ball scope I use is much higher than a normal scope and I still have more height adjustment remaining. The lock has two mounting holes and you can "step" up to the next hole for another range of adjustment.

The link in the butt section does provide endless flexibility and a range in the length of pull from 11 1/4 inches to 15 inches.

I appreciate your comments.

Jeffrey

[Barney]

I assume by the photo it looks like you have barrel clamped the action?
You have done a great job making the stock

[Jeffrey]

Barney,
The stock is a barrel clamp type. I build the stock with an integrated tuner in the stock that works off the action and requires the action to be free floated. The only change I am making from my previous generation stock is the butt and cheek piece section. I was fitting a rifle to a shooter in the MMU (Marine Marksman Unit) who had a 15 inch length of pull and I was not able to get my first generation of stock to fit for length or cheek piece location. It was a challenge to get all the adjustment ranges extended for him but there also is a Junior Olympic hopeful with an 11 inch pull requirement that I am also accommodating. Every 1/16 inch is a challenge.

Jeffrey

[Martin Catley]

How much height can you get into the Butt Plate in the Photo it is not very high, common thinking now is to have the Butt centre in line with the Bore? That is for Prone of course.

Martin

[Jeffrey]

Martin,
I think it is the angle of the photo that makes the butt plate look low. Actually, you can put the butt plate (centerline) well above the bore centerline if that is what you like.

Jeffrey

[Globesmasher17]

Jeffrey:
Great looking rig.
You should post that in the "Let's see those small bore rigs" thread.

Very nice indeed - looks incredibly versatile and adjustable.

[Barney]

Jeffrey,

You talk about a tuner under the action, is that what the knurled nut just in front of the trigger gaurd is for?

Once you get your final design how you want it, I think you would be able to sell quite a lot of these stocks.

Barney

[Guest]

I have never even held an Anotomic but I think my stock has a wider range of adjustments.

So having "never held one", what are you basing your claim on?

A hunch?