Olympic champion used supra-12 hold?

[miacdc]

It is mentioned some where in this forum that gold medal in Olympic has been won using supra-12 hold before?

I used to shoot center hold. I decided to give supra-12 a try.

I can't believe how gratifying to shoot with supra-12. Many 10's appeared without much of a struggle.

Any one who shoots nothing but supra-12 hold here?

Also, this Olympic champion shot Gold with this supra-12 hold, is this true? Who used this hold in higher competition?

Many people don't use this because some pistols have trouble getting into this supra-12 hold. My LP-10 could be adjusted easily to this hold.

[Brian James]

Can you tell us what is a supra-12 hold?

I'm guessing its shooting above the black in the white (essentially an inverse of the Sub 6 hold)?

Brian

[miacdc]

It is the same principle as sub-six, but area aim above the black. Black target is even less attractive than sub-six.

[miacdc]

It is the same principle as sub-six, but area aim above the black. Black target is even less attractive than sub-six.

[RobStubbs]

It is the same principle as sub-six, but area aim above the black. Black target is even less attractive than sub-six.

I would question whether it's the same principle because there is no bull as a reference. I suspect anyone using such an aiming technique must use the top of the target / target holder as a reference point and that varies between targets. I've never heard anyone using this method and I certainly wouldn't recommend it.

Rob.

[Thoeben]

It is mentioned some where in this forum that gold medal in Olympic has been won using supra-12 hold before?

Yes. This aiming point was lused by some eastern european top level FP competitors, in combination with a wide front blade, to totally obscure the black aiming bull.
I think the most commom aiming point for the 'supra 12'shooters' were center hold at,or slightly below, the very top of the target (not the top of the aiming bull, but of the target).
The benefit from this hold (and wide front blade9 was to supress the tendency to consentrate on, and have visual focus on, the black bull.

[Thoeben]

Ant @ miacdc:
Yes, the 'supra'12' hold is very relaxing, especially under tence competitive conditions.

Some guns may need some adjustment to be used with 'supra-12' hold:
Just ad i chim under the front blade, about 1 mm thick will help. You may then need a slightly longer screw.
I do not remember now any names of Olympic competitors using the 'supra-12' hold. But some did.
I'll try to dig out some info about that topic.

[Thoeben]

Some guns may need some adjustment to be used with 'supra-12' hold:
Just ad i chim under the front blade, about 1 mm thick will help. You may then need a slightly longer screw.

A bad misprint: I have filed down the front blade about 1 mm. And I then use a 1 mm thick plastic chim under the front blade whenever i may wnat to use a '6-o'clock' hold.

[David Levene]

Some guns may need some adjustment to be used with 'supra-12' hold:
Just ad i chim under the front blade, about 1 mm thick will help. You may then need a slightly longer screw.

A bad misprint: I have filed down the front blade about 1 mm. And I then use a 1 mm thick plastic chim under the front blade whenever i may wnat to use a '6-o'clock' hold.

That sounds like it's the wrong way round.

To allow you to aim above the black the front sight would need to be higher.

[zarathustra]

Hi guys,

I still kinda not getting the point. Where do actually aim? At the six above the seven, or actually around "one" on top of the target?

How do you get your center reference ( I mean, you dont get actually get to see the black (7 through 10)

Regards!

[dhurt]

I fooled around with this, for a while, with my airpistol. It seemed to work well enough in training, so I tried it at Nationals, first target 98! After the first one, kind of average. I think no matter the sight picture, you still must have confidence and a good trigger action. I went back to sub six, I like it better, though it doesn't guarantee any miracles either! Front sight, smooth release....no matter where the sights are positioned. Regards, Dwaine

[trinity]

That's quite interesting, I too have never heard of it before, but it does make sense.

I mean, look at it, how many of you have a better blank target grouping than your faced target grouping?

So this hold method essentially makes you shoot on a faced target but pretending to shoot on a blank target. Certainly you may get some left/right movement from the absence of a reference point, but I think with some practice your eyes can easily pick out the midpoint of the target.

In the past I certainly have tried to visualize shooting on a blank target when I would have trouble breaking the trigger in competition. So this takes it to the next level, don't visualize shooting on a blank, actually shoot on the blank part of the target!

I think I may try this now that I am in my off season.

-trinity

[RobStubbs]

I still kinda not getting the point. Where do actually aim? At the six above the seven, or actually around "one" on top of the target?

How do you get your center reference ( I mean, you dont get actually get to see the black (7 through 10)

It's another area aiming technique but in this case your area is above the black. Don't however kid yourself that no bull means no distracting black blob. You just switch the black blob for a dark line - and as I mentioned that will change from range to range and between target (frame) makers.

You may conceivably do well with it to start with but I'd be suprised if when the novelty wears off, or competition pressure come on, it didn't under perform a more traditional aiming technique. But don't let my cynicism put you off trying it for yourself.

Rob.

[Thoeben]

How do you get your center reference ( I mean, you dont get actually get to see the black (7 through 10)

Front blade is centered relative to the upper target corners/and both vertical sides of target. Not difficult.
Aiming point at, or slightly below, the very top of the target.

The position of the bull is given relative to the corners og the target.
You do not need to see the bull to aim precisely.
The advantage is NOT seeng the bull, btw.

[Guest]

I really struggle to stop my focus going to the target and I definately shoot tight groups and in the centre using the back of the card. I don't think it will be any problem
I have always shot very low sub six probably more a 3 ring hold but this is an idea worth trying.

[Dr. Jim]

This seems very similar to the routine in PPC where many shooters set the sights to hold on the "neck" of the shilouette, hence well above the centre 10 ring. When I shoot the occasional PPC match I still use this for the 50m stages.

Dr Jim

[2650 Plus]

I have never used anything but the center hold so this is only suposition. I am not convinced that where you hold is as important as minimizing your arc of movement and achieving perfect sight allignment before the shot fires. I am also surprised that world level shooters would use such a drastic departure fron established practice as the hold mentioned in this post Good Shooting Bill Horton

[RobStubbs]

I am also surprised that world level shooters would use such a drastic departure fron established practice as the hold mentioned in this post Good Shooting Bill Horton

I would take the opening statement with a large pinch of salt - purely heresay at the moment. I too find it difficult to believe.

Rob.

[aximisu]

The upper edge of the target and the edge of the front aiming can be parallel easier than in a traditional way of aiming.

Maybe is the best way not to lean the pistol.

I think is has nothing to do with the bulls eye aiming.

[Richard H]

I have to agree there maybe a couple world class shooters using it but I really don't think there is a big movement to it. Then again there is no harm in anyone trying it, it might just work for you. If you do try it give it some time to see if it really does work for you.

Like some others have said there will still be distractions in the form of the target frame, which can change between ranges. I don't think there is some magic thats going to make you shoot better. It still boils down to executing the fundamentals, sight alignment and trigger activation.