Howdy,
Many times, the answers to questions posted in this forum seem to be either "Ask your coach", or "Get a coach".
I live in the middle of northern USA, where/how do I find an Air Pistol coach? (This question is probably asked by many aspiring shooters/posters)
All the competition venues seem to be 500-1000 miles or more away from me, and I figure that's where the AP coaches are going to live, to be near both the high quality range and the shooters. And even if I do find a coach, after getting maybe 1,2 or 3 days of AP instructions, while paying him and my travel expenses, what do I do for my next question or problem or just to move to the next level? Travel back to him again, with all those subsequent expenses?
I realize that to excell in this sport, a person needs serious commitment to training and to the time required and that both these items are expensive, and that how far a person wants to go will dictate how much of these items one is willing to spend.
The racing statement "Speed=Money, how fast do you want to go?" seems to be pertinent here...
But my initial question, "Where/how do I or anybody else, find an Air Pistol coach?"
air pistol coach?
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I'd say, buy several GOODS books about it.
There are postal matches as well, to be shot at yr own club.
Some coaches are willing to help through email. Allthough not perfect, some help is better than none!
You can spread the practical sessions with the coach. Maybe once a month? Depending on how often you shoot.
And practise a lot yrself too!
For where the coaches are, I guess you look at the national shooting association site
There are postal matches as well, to be shot at yr own club.
Some coaches are willing to help through email. Allthough not perfect, some help is better than none!
You can spread the practical sessions with the coach. Maybe once a month? Depending on how often you shoot.
And practise a lot yrself too!
For where the coaches are, I guess you look at the national shooting association site
Good question.
Probably the closest place to find a bunch of good shooters is the Olympic Training Center in Colorado Springs. A 2 or 3 day session would really tell you everything you need to know. After that you would just be tweaking your technique.
Flying in would probably be the cheapest and fastest.
Failing that, I suppose a phone call to the Coach would give you a starting place to find someone close to you (you only need one).
One possibility is competing in the big AP match at the OTC in Dec. You would have lots of spare time to train with a "coach" there. Some of the best shooters in the country will be there. I know there's some that might be willing to work with you.
http://www.usashooting.com/downloads/20 ... er%202.doc
Good luck with your search!
Probably the closest place to find a bunch of good shooters is the Olympic Training Center in Colorado Springs. A 2 or 3 day session would really tell you everything you need to know. After that you would just be tweaking your technique.
Flying in would probably be the cheapest and fastest.
Failing that, I suppose a phone call to the Coach would give you a starting place to find someone close to you (you only need one).
One possibility is competing in the big AP match at the OTC in Dec. You would have lots of spare time to train with a "coach" there. Some of the best shooters in the country will be there. I know there's some that might be willing to work with you.
http://www.usashooting.com/downloads/20 ... er%202.doc
Good luck with your search!
You'll need to contact your governing body to find a coach in your area, and you may need to be a member to do that, but I always advise people to join them wherever possible.
Coaches are generally few and far between and a lot of 'coaches' will really just be instructors at a basic level.
I find mixing with other competitors helps and you can quiz them as to what they do for coaching. The training camps are also a great idea - and can again open up avenues.
In the UK I ended up doing the coaching classes to get the qualifications to coach with a view to self coaching - because of the lack of coaches. That has deffinately helped me, apart from the minor 'problem' of now spending a fair amount of my spare time coaching others - but at least I like to think I'm helping add +1 to the scarce numbers.
Rob.
Coaches are generally few and far between and a lot of 'coaches' will really just be instructors at a basic level.
I find mixing with other competitors helps and you can quiz them as to what they do for coaching. The training camps are also a great idea - and can again open up avenues.
In the UK I ended up doing the coaching classes to get the qualifications to coach with a view to self coaching - because of the lack of coaches. That has deffinately helped me, apart from the minor 'problem' of now spending a fair amount of my spare time coaching others - but at least I like to think I'm helping add +1 to the scarce numbers.
Rob.
Zuckerman,
You pose an interesting question and something that has become a problem in the US and I suspect in many other nations.
I only have one suggestion but will get a little historical/philosophical before I get to that.
Time was facilities and shooting clubs seemed to be around just about every corner. Many clubs were based out of ranges on nearby military or national guard facilities. Numerous high schools and colleges had shooting teams.
In the early 1970s I was 8 years old and as far as I know the gentlemen that taught my basic marksmanship course had no credentials, they were just knowledgeable and interested in supporting shooting programs. The important point there is it was done on a volunteer basis.
Through the 1970s and 80s the NRA did try to standardize shooting instructors and coaches. The coaches program had, if I remember correctly 3 levels. It was around 1990 I went through the program and had my first level credentials. (Note: I was a smallbore rifle shooter) For several years prior to obtaining my credentials I had been returning what I had gotten from the sport to junior clubs in my area and I continued following getting my coaching credentials. It is important to point out that this was on a volunteer basis. The most I ever received for my efforts was lunch when I volunteered to coach at an all day or all weekend shooting camp.
All was fine until the mid-1990s when the NRA decreed that in order to renew my credentials I would have to take a Red Cross CPR class. I have forgotten how much this was going to cost me but between the out of pocket expense and the fact that I did not consider the 15-18 year olds I was working with in a non-contact sport to be at a high risk for a heart attack I declined that exercise and dropped my credentials. There were a few other things in the same time frame where the NRA demonstrated an attitude that the volunteers should help the NRA but the NRA did not have to support the volunteers so after a while I personally quit volunteering and just went back to shooting for my own pleasure. It was interesting to note that while the NRA put a spin on the CPR class about “weeding out coaches who were not committed to the sport” or some nice thing like that, it was rumored that several hundreds, perhaps over a thousand coaches in various disciplines and levels who dropped their credentials over that one. The bottom line here, most shooting coaches do this for love of the sport and at the end of the day it ends up costing them money, at the very least to drive to and from the range and the notion that the NRA was going to impose requirements that imposed a direct cost did not go over real well. The NRA seemed to forget that, you can put just so many demands on volunteers before they quit volunteering. Unfortunately this also means there are very qualified coaches out there who are off the radar and unless you stumble into them by word of mouth they will be difficult to find.
Now fast forward about 15 years, poking around on the USAS website the link takes you to where I see that USAS and NRA have a combined coaches accreditation program. It is impossible for me to say whether this is a good thing or bad thing. It does however give you a possible avenue of approach. There is a fellow named Bob Foth at USAS (former Olympian I believe) 719-866-4670, or Bob.Foth@usashooting.org who is listed as their “Manager, Youth Programs and Coach Development for USA Shooting”. Your best bet would be to call him and find out if there are any pistol coaches in your area. That would be the first step. The next trick will be to find a coach that can help you at your level. Recall for certified coaches there are three levels? The first level can get a person started in competition the third level can work with national class shooters. The problem is much easier if you are trying to advance from 540 to 550 than if you are 560 going for 570.
I see I have gone on for a bit here, but these are my thoughts on why it is so hard to find a coach and also what you might do about trying to find one. Anyhow this is my two cents.
Cheers,
‘Dude
You pose an interesting question and something that has become a problem in the US and I suspect in many other nations.
I only have one suggestion but will get a little historical/philosophical before I get to that.
Time was facilities and shooting clubs seemed to be around just about every corner. Many clubs were based out of ranges on nearby military or national guard facilities. Numerous high schools and colleges had shooting teams.
In the early 1970s I was 8 years old and as far as I know the gentlemen that taught my basic marksmanship course had no credentials, they were just knowledgeable and interested in supporting shooting programs. The important point there is it was done on a volunteer basis.
Through the 1970s and 80s the NRA did try to standardize shooting instructors and coaches. The coaches program had, if I remember correctly 3 levels. It was around 1990 I went through the program and had my first level credentials. (Note: I was a smallbore rifle shooter) For several years prior to obtaining my credentials I had been returning what I had gotten from the sport to junior clubs in my area and I continued following getting my coaching credentials. It is important to point out that this was on a volunteer basis. The most I ever received for my efforts was lunch when I volunteered to coach at an all day or all weekend shooting camp.
All was fine until the mid-1990s when the NRA decreed that in order to renew my credentials I would have to take a Red Cross CPR class. I have forgotten how much this was going to cost me but between the out of pocket expense and the fact that I did not consider the 15-18 year olds I was working with in a non-contact sport to be at a high risk for a heart attack I declined that exercise and dropped my credentials. There were a few other things in the same time frame where the NRA demonstrated an attitude that the volunteers should help the NRA but the NRA did not have to support the volunteers so after a while I personally quit volunteering and just went back to shooting for my own pleasure. It was interesting to note that while the NRA put a spin on the CPR class about “weeding out coaches who were not committed to the sport” or some nice thing like that, it was rumored that several hundreds, perhaps over a thousand coaches in various disciplines and levels who dropped their credentials over that one. The bottom line here, most shooting coaches do this for love of the sport and at the end of the day it ends up costing them money, at the very least to drive to and from the range and the notion that the NRA was going to impose requirements that imposed a direct cost did not go over real well. The NRA seemed to forget that, you can put just so many demands on volunteers before they quit volunteering. Unfortunately this also means there are very qualified coaches out there who are off the radar and unless you stumble into them by word of mouth they will be difficult to find.
Now fast forward about 15 years, poking around on the USAS website the link takes you to where I see that USAS and NRA have a combined coaches accreditation program. It is impossible for me to say whether this is a good thing or bad thing. It does however give you a possible avenue of approach. There is a fellow named Bob Foth at USAS (former Olympian I believe) 719-866-4670, or Bob.Foth@usashooting.org who is listed as their “Manager, Youth Programs and Coach Development for USA Shooting”. Your best bet would be to call him and find out if there are any pistol coaches in your area. That would be the first step. The next trick will be to find a coach that can help you at your level. Recall for certified coaches there are three levels? The first level can get a person started in competition the third level can work with national class shooters. The problem is much easier if you are trying to advance from 540 to 550 than if you are 560 going for 570.
I see I have gone on for a bit here, but these are my thoughts on why it is so hard to find a coach and also what you might do about trying to find one. Anyhow this is my two cents.
Cheers,
‘Dude
Whilst I agree with some of what 'dude' writes, coaches almost always do it for the love of the sport and except for the very few, it ends up costing them money and time, or at best, just time. I couldn't even begin to estimate how much money coaching has cost me, but I've attended at least 7 separate courses and whilst my club has subsidised a small piece of it, the vast majority of the costs come out of my pocket. I certainly wouldn't complain about 'one more requirement' though but perhaps I'm new enough to the coaching game that I get a lot out of it and it hasn't become a chore (well except getting up early at the weekend when I'd rather stay in bed).
As for what level of coach you're looking for - in my opinion any coach is better than no coach, every time no matter what your ability.
Rob.
As for what level of coach you're looking for - in my opinion any coach is better than no coach, every time no matter what your ability.
Rob.
Zuckerman, I agree with you about the cost and time required for most of us to receive regular coaching. 18 months ago I signed up with Sill Lyra (sillintercoach@yahoo.com). He advertises every month in USA Shooting magazine and coaches air pistol to an international level. He conducts all of his coaching via email, sending me a regular training program. I send back photos of targets, scores, and written observations on my performance.
Sill is a very conscientious coach and I have found this system to work well for me. I have improved my average score from 510 to 545 in the 18 months we've worked together.
Anthony
Sill is a very conscientious coach and I have found this system to work well for me. I have improved my average score from 510 to 545 in the 18 months we've worked together.
Anthony
Umm, whilst internet coaching may be better than no coaching, it's a long way shy of actually watching someone shooting and working with them in person. I would certainly never consider coaching anyone in 'virtual' fashion alone.jawcross wrote:Zuckerman, I agree with you about the cost and time required for most of us to receive regular coaching. 18 months ago I signed up with Sill Lyra (sillintercoach@yahoo.com). He advertises every month in USA Shooting magazine and coaches air pistol to an international level. He conducts all of his coaching via email, sending me a regular training program. I send back photos of targets, scores, and written observations on my performance.
Sill is a very conscientious coach and I have found this system to work well for me. I have improved my average score from 510 to 545 in the 18 months we've worked together.
Anthony
Rob.
I would tend to agree, but with Skype and wireless broadband available, pehaps there is an undeveloped (yet?) potential for 'live' on-line coaching.RobStubbs wrote:...Umm, whilst internet coaching may be better than no coaching, it's a long way shy of actually watching someone shooting and working with them in person. I would certainly never consider coaching anyone in 'virtual' fashion alone.
Rob.
Interesting...
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pfmessina
Rob, while I respect both you and your opinion, you should not make conclusions about someone or the method they employee for coaching unless you have first-hand knowledge. Like Anthony, I am also a student of Sill's and he has made tremendous progress with all of the shooters in his care. Virtual coaching, if done correctly can be quite successful. The level of detail that he employs and his vast knowledge of the sport is quite effective. He not only provides training in the technical aspects of the sport but also includes mental, nutritional, and physical training. Just my thoughts.Spencer wrote:I would tend to agree, but with Skype and wireless broadband available, pehaps there is an undeveloped (yet?) potential for 'live' on-line coaching.RobStubbs wrote:...Umm, whilst internet coaching may be better than no coaching, it's a long way shy of actually watching someone shooting and working with them in person. I would certainly never consider coaching anyone in 'virtual' fashion alone.
Rob.
Interesting...
Cheers,
Paul F. Messina
Paul,pfmessina wrote:Rob, while I respect both you and your opinion, you should not make conclusions about someone or the method they employee for coaching unless you have first-hand knowledge. Like Anthony, I am also a student of Sill's and he has made tremendous progress with all of the shooters in his care. Virtual coaching, if done correctly can be quite successful. The level of detail that he employs and his vast knowledge of the sport is quite effective. He not only provides training in the technical aspects of the sport but also includes mental, nutritional, and physical training. Just my thoughts.Spencer wrote:I would tend to agree, but with Skype and wireless broadband available, pehaps there is an undeveloped (yet?) potential for 'live' on-line coaching.RobStubbs wrote:...Umm, whilst internet coaching may be better than no coaching, it's a long way shy of actually watching someone shooting and working with them in person. I would certainly never consider coaching anyone in 'virtual' fashion alone.
Rob.
Interesting...
Cheers,
Paul F. Messina
Read properly what I said. I said virtual is not the same as coaching someone live, it never can be. I also said I personally wouldn't coach someone that way. There is of course a lot that can be achieved virtually - the main guy I coach lives the best part of 2 hours drive from me, but we meet up as often as possible, and talk via phone and email in between times.
Rob.
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Won't reveal location
Repulsive coach
Where I come from we do have a bigoted coach who tend to scare more potential shooters off the ranges than what he manages to attract to the shooting sport.
Some coaches are viewed less favourable than others. :-(
Some coaches are viewed less favourable than others. :-(
Re: Repulsive coach
Yep I'd certainly agree with that. Some 'coaches' think they know it all, that their way is the only way and that bossing people and shouting at them is the only way to go.Won't reveal location wrote:Where I come from we do have a bigoted coach who tend to scare more potential shooters off the ranges than what he manages to attract to the shooting sport.
Some coaches are viewed less favourable than others. :-(
Coaching is exactly the same as anything else, you learn with the shooters(s) and together you aim to improve and get the best out of the relationship.
Rob.
*Sigh* I did the same, with the same effect. Serves you and me right. ;-)RobStubbs wrote:I ended up doing the coaching classes to get the qualifications to coach with a view to self coaching - because of the lack of coaches. That has deffinately helped me, apart from the minor 'problem' of now spending a fair amount of my spare time coaching others - but at least I like to think I'm helping add +1 to the scarce numbers.
Alexander
If you pretend to respect him and his opinion, maybe then you should first try to actually read and understand what he WROTE, in the very first place.pfmessina wrote:Rob, while I respect both you and your opinion, you should notRobStubbs wrote:...Umm, whilst internet coaching may be better than no coaching, it's a long way shy of actually watching someone shooting and working with them in person. I would certainly never consider coaching anyone in 'virtual' fashion alone.
Then come back and comment on it; not the other way around.
Alexander
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Guest
That was such a useful addition to the discussion.Alexander wrote:If you pretend to respect him and his opinion, maybe then you should first try to actually read and understand what he WROTE, in the very first place.pfmessina wrote:Rob, while I respect both you and your opinion, you should notRobStubbs wrote:...Umm, whilst internet coaching may be better than no coaching, it's a long way shy of actually watching someone shooting and working with them in person. I would certainly never consider coaching anyone in 'virtual' fashion alone.
Then come back and comment on it; not the other way around.
Alexander
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pfmessina
Alexander,Alexander wrote:If you pretend to respect him and his opinion, maybe then you should first try to actually read and understand what he WROTE, in the very first place.pfmessina wrote:Rob, while I respect both you and your opinion, you should notRobStubbs wrote:...Umm, whilst internet coaching may be better than no coaching, it's a long way shy of actually watching someone shooting and working with them in person. I would certainly never consider coaching anyone in 'virtual' fashion alone.
Then come back and comment on it; not the other way around.
Alexander
Let me go ahead and re-write my comments so that you can understand. Rob, who by the way I do resepct, said he would never coach someone that way alone. Now Alexander, did you get that...were YOU able to read what Rob said originally? Ok, good...now let me continue. The original poser of the question may have read Rob's comment and decided not to pursue the virtual coaching option because Rob said "he would never coach someone that way alone". I would strongly recommend that the poser pursue the possibility of a virtual coach. Are you still with me...my comment said that as an actual shooting athlete who actually has a virtual pistol coach, a shooter can improve by leaps and bounds and, in my opinion my coach is just as effective as an online coach (and yes I have had a physical shooting coach in the past so I can speak from experience).
Paul F. Messina
Such a re-writing attempt is very, very commendable. No, not so much for its implied altruism that you so kindly extended toward me, although such charity will certainly be weighed onto the scale of your positive karma.pfmessina wrote:Let me go ahead and re-write my comments so that you can understand.RobStubbs wrote:...Umm, whilst internet coaching may be better than no coaching, it's a long way shy of actually watching someone shooting and working with them in person. I would certainly never consider coaching anyone in 'virtual' fashion alone.
Rather it is commendable, because it will enable you to understand better what YOU had written; apparently, there was some, hmm, deficiency also in this respect.
Rob, who by the way I do resepct, said he would never coach someone that way alone.
That is what he said. Now please contemplate (and thereupon kindly progress to let us know) what about the innocuous qualifier "alone" you did not understand? Alone, you know, adverbially used here, synonymous to "solely", "merely", "exclusively".
Evidently a wrong and unsound opinion. Admittedly, in extremis, a good online coach may help one still more than a bad RL coach, but that was and is not the question nor a suitable comparison.in my opinion my coach is just as effective as an online coach
Alexander