NRA Grant Store Modeled After Government
Moderators: pilkguns, m1963, David Levene, Spencer, Richard H
NRA Grant Store Modeled After Government
Does anybody have any ideas as to how to make changes to the cumbersome NRA Grant Store System? This is the worst idea the NRA has come-up with that I can remember. The cost of the items they have in their store are about 40% higher on many items. The system is so cumbersome and expensive in that if this was a real store in the real world it would be out of business. They promise that it will be cheaper in the future, but if you believe that then you must believe that Obama Care is going to save money.
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1813benny
- Posts: 330
- Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2004 6:03 pm
- Location: state of total consciousness
- Contact:
The site and system is a total CF. Overpriced and locked into one pseudo vendor.
In prior years, I was able to put an equipment list out for competitive bid and often received a discount of several hundred dollars. Hey, capitialism works and the kids got more much needed equipment.
Forget about that now. How does this look....I will give you a grant but you have to spend it where I tell you to via forcing you to go to a web site.
Several other headaches with the "improved" process.
If the prices change, you can't supplement the grant to pay for the difference.
You have to use the money from each category only for items in that category.
You can't move money between categories to compensate for fluctuations.
NRA - trying their best to kill smallbore once an for all....at the grass roots level.
The only way to change this is to bombard them with complaints..not only at the national level but at the local and state level also.
In prior years, I was able to put an equipment list out for competitive bid and often received a discount of several hundred dollars. Hey, capitialism works and the kids got more much needed equipment.
Forget about that now. How does this look....I will give you a grant but you have to spend it where I tell you to via forcing you to go to a web site.
Several other headaches with the "improved" process.
If the prices change, you can't supplement the grant to pay for the difference.
You have to use the money from each category only for items in that category.
You can't move money between categories to compensate for fluctuations.
NRA - trying their best to kill smallbore once an for all....at the grass roots level.
The only way to change this is to bombard them with complaints..not only at the national level but at the local and state level also.
I suppose I don't understand your complaint. The NRA gives your organization a grant, which is a credit to be used in their store. The grant money comes from Friends of the NRA dinners and corporate and private donations. The NRA has a way to track the grant money to insure the money is not squandered. You think that the store charges too much, even though the credit was a grant (free money). Is that your complaint or am I missing something?
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Guest
The complaint is that they are forcing you to take the only vendor, when with smart shopping you could stretch those dollars and get more equipment for your club. They have it set up as a feeding system to just a certain vendor. At this rate, they may as well not deal in money, just award the product, and do the procurement for us. It would put the other vendors out of business but save the clubs a headache.
"Guest" has gotten it exactly right. The NRA has not given clubs grants of so and so much money. It has passed out scrip or Monopoly Money with a value of $0.50 on the nominal dollar, and usable only at one store. This may be an efficient way to do business if the idea is to recapture and recycle the money, but the headquarters offices should not be calling this scrip a "grant."
Generally when I get a grant of, say, $100,000 I spend it where I get exactly what I want at the lowest possible prices. It may be that the NRA source doesn't even carry what I need. Then to spend the money I may have to buy things I don't want or need, and can't get what I calculate is the most useful or shows the greatest need.
Generally when I get a grant of, say, $100,000 I spend it where I get exactly what I want at the lowest possible prices. It may be that the NRA source doesn't even carry what I need. Then to spend the money I may have to buy things I don't want or need, and can't get what I calculate is the most useful or shows the greatest need.
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Insider- being annonomous
Our little club use to raise money by dues ($80/yr) and holding a little raffle to raffle off a deer rifle. I quit that and started helping out with the FNRA dinners and put in for a grant. All along the whole thing seemed like a bureacratic and cumbersome way to buy a little ammo and a few shooting jackets. I now plan to go back to the raffle and quit fooling with them. So that is how I plan to fix it.
One thing that is really bad about their new system is that many of the vendors who supply our equipment are very small operations. This FNRA money was something they came to depend on. Probably a bad situation from the start. Seems like having a big bureacracy between you and your customers is a bad situation. Anyway, now like Walmart has done to many small businesses the FNRA has taken a percentage of their business away.
I think it is best to raise money for local clubs locally and keep large bureacracies out of it.
One thing that is really bad about their new system is that many of the vendors who supply our equipment are very small operations. This FNRA money was something they came to depend on. Probably a bad situation from the start. Seems like having a big bureacracy between you and your customers is a bad situation. Anyway, now like Walmart has done to many small businesses the FNRA has taken a percentage of their business away.
I think it is best to raise money for local clubs locally and keep large bureacracies out of it.
Unfortunately this is probably true to an extent. Although people in the shooting sports tend as a rule to be fine, honest people, I have met some who were completely self-serving. Years and years ago, when I first started shooting, I was in a club where the "leader" got free .22 ammunition from the CMP, sold it to the club members, and pocketed the proceeds. The same sort of behavior could appear with NRA grants....a club leader gets a $5,000 grant, and sells $2,000 worth of gear to the club for $5,000.Insider- being annonomous wrote:NRA had to do something to protect the program from IRS 501C(3) problems due to fraud and self-embelishment by a small number of grant recipients. Amazing how a few bad apples make everything more difficult for the rest of us.
I know nothing of the NRA grant system, but I imagine that the only way to curb that type of abuse is to either have a SMALL group of well-vetted approved vendors or go the company-store route.
OK, now I am not familar with the specific system put forth by the NRA. From the sounds of it, I don't care to be. I am reading this thread with some interest. My take here: The NRA disburses funds received from fundraising for specific causes then forces the recipients to spend the money in a NRA run store with inflated prices. Yeah, this raises a few eyebrows.
I have worked in and near federal and state goverment much of my life, additionally my wife is a grants and funding contract manager. (federal money) As much as I groan at the government procurement system I will say it is fair. In a nutshell, here are taxpayer dollars you may spend them at these approved vendors. Note the vendors are pre-approved on the GSA schedule and are not federal entities. The fed makes it a point to try not to compete with businesses, for many good reasons.
Now, the suspicious person in me says the NRA has found a great way to funnel money designated for certain charitable causes and redirect it through their "store" to base or general funding. Think of it this way, Joe gives me $10 to help youth baseball. I really want to use that $10 for something else so I give the $10 to Pete who is running a youth team so he can buy a baseball, but I tell him he has to buy the baseball from me. I then charge him $10 for a $5 baseball that cost me $2.50. Say it takes another $2.50 to cover overhead for running the store now I pull $5 out of the deal that I can redirect for whatever I want (ie general funds).
Now, I am not saying the NRA is doing this, I really don't know but a grant should not come with the restrictions I am reading about here. In the interest of transparency the NRA needs to develop a list of approved vendors. The end system is simple and transparent: Club A buys equipment from approved Vendor X. Club A then sends receipt for equipment from approved Vendor X to NRA. NRA then cuts check to Club A. (oh heck its the 21st century... transfers the money into Club A's checking account)
The NRA keeps a handle that the money is being spent on appropriate items, the clubs get their equipment and businesses get some much needed business.
So long as everyone has their 501(c)(3) paperwork you can even get away from having to pay sales taxes.
My 2 cents
'Dude
I have worked in and near federal and state goverment much of my life, additionally my wife is a grants and funding contract manager. (federal money) As much as I groan at the government procurement system I will say it is fair. In a nutshell, here are taxpayer dollars you may spend them at these approved vendors. Note the vendors are pre-approved on the GSA schedule and are not federal entities. The fed makes it a point to try not to compete with businesses, for many good reasons.
Now, the suspicious person in me says the NRA has found a great way to funnel money designated for certain charitable causes and redirect it through their "store" to base or general funding. Think of it this way, Joe gives me $10 to help youth baseball. I really want to use that $10 for something else so I give the $10 to Pete who is running a youth team so he can buy a baseball, but I tell him he has to buy the baseball from me. I then charge him $10 for a $5 baseball that cost me $2.50. Say it takes another $2.50 to cover overhead for running the store now I pull $5 out of the deal that I can redirect for whatever I want (ie general funds).
Now, I am not saying the NRA is doing this, I really don't know but a grant should not come with the restrictions I am reading about here. In the interest of transparency the NRA needs to develop a list of approved vendors. The end system is simple and transparent: Club A buys equipment from approved Vendor X. Club A then sends receipt for equipment from approved Vendor X to NRA. NRA then cuts check to Club A. (oh heck its the 21st century... transfers the money into Club A's checking account)
The NRA keeps a handle that the money is being spent on appropriate items, the clubs get their equipment and businesses get some much needed business.
So long as everyone has their 501(c)(3) paperwork you can even get away from having to pay sales taxes.
My 2 cents
'Dude
The 501(c)3 thing is a HUGE deal in these times. The NRA was not able to police this in an effective way (from my perspective) due to involvement of directors who should have been told to butt out.
I am not an advocate of the store as I see prices that are too high, too few choices, and delivery schedules that disrupt a whole shooting season .... if the "approved" vendor cannot supply, I feel I should be able to go to another without jumping thru a whole bunch of hoops. I feel lucky that I'm in a state that there are hoops I can jump thru .... from my conversations with others, it is not possible in other states.
What the NRA should have done, is strapped on a pair, and gone after those who were not in compliance ... Getting a letter demanding money back would have gotten some attention, but it should have been done ... even if it were directed at personal friends of some of the directors. "Too flippin' bad", I say.
I'm not sure how effective the FNRA and this grant process, grant store will be in the future. It takes a lot of time and effort to put into a FNRA banquet. It is very near the point for me to spend that time going to folks who come to the banquets directly and just asking for donations.
I am pretty upset at having to pay as much as 30% more in the store for some items. I'll grant that sometimes there are items that are less, but those items are few and far between.
I am not an advocate of the store as I see prices that are too high, too few choices, and delivery schedules that disrupt a whole shooting season .... if the "approved" vendor cannot supply, I feel I should be able to go to another without jumping thru a whole bunch of hoops. I feel lucky that I'm in a state that there are hoops I can jump thru .... from my conversations with others, it is not possible in other states.
What the NRA should have done, is strapped on a pair, and gone after those who were not in compliance ... Getting a letter demanding money back would have gotten some attention, but it should have been done ... even if it were directed at personal friends of some of the directors. "Too flippin' bad", I say.
I'm not sure how effective the FNRA and this grant process, grant store will be in the future. It takes a lot of time and effort to put into a FNRA banquet. It is very near the point for me to spend that time going to folks who come to the banquets directly and just asking for donations.
I am pretty upset at having to pay as much as 30% more in the store for some items. I'll grant that sometimes there are items that are less, but those items are few and far between.
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SRichieR
- Posts: 120
- Joined: Fri Dec 29, 2006 8:39 am
- Location: Shelby County Shooting Sports; Alabama
Ditto what jhmartin said!!!!!!!!!!!
What is now the parent organization of the jr team I coach was one of the offenders. They got a grant in 2002. Spent the money as specified but never did a final report. I and the current board of directors were not aware until we were denied payment on a new grant in 2007. It then took me 2+ years to get enought interest by the club to get the report finished (needed a receipt). During the 2 years the only letters from NRA just asked for the report before funding the 2007 grant. Nothing serious enough to get folks off dead center. We are clear now. Had the NRA issued some legal dunning type letters the board would have gotten moving much sooner.
What is now the parent organization of the jr team I coach was one of the offenders. They got a grant in 2002. Spent the money as specified but never did a final report. I and the current board of directors were not aware until we were denied payment on a new grant in 2007. It then took me 2+ years to get enought interest by the club to get the report finished (needed a receipt). During the 2 years the only letters from NRA just asked for the report before funding the 2007 grant. Nothing serious enough to get folks off dead center. We are clear now. Had the NRA issued some legal dunning type letters the board would have gotten moving much sooner.
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Guest
I coach a team that has gotten FNRA grants in the past.
We have not applied for a grant for a while because of the hassle factor.
We applied for amount A, and instead got smaller amount B.
The grant was for a new air rifle.
Instead of getting one from a certain vendor, we found the same rifle, cheaper, for sale on this web site.
So we got it, and still wound up spending our entire grant amount on the air rifle, just like the proposal said we would.
Because we got a good deal on this site with a used rifle, it caused all sorts of uproar with the local committee.
Nevermind that we spent the entire amount getting a competition air rifle, just like we said we would.
Never mind it was the exact model of air rifle specified in the grant (came with lots of pellets and extras).
Caused all sorts of uproar because we got it on this site, not with vendor X.
Now I hear you have to spend the grant money with the NRA grant store?
Are you kidding me?
No more FRNA grants for us.
No thanks.
We have not applied for a grant for a while because of the hassle factor.
We applied for amount A, and instead got smaller amount B.
The grant was for a new air rifle.
Instead of getting one from a certain vendor, we found the same rifle, cheaper, for sale on this web site.
So we got it, and still wound up spending our entire grant amount on the air rifle, just like the proposal said we would.
Because we got a good deal on this site with a used rifle, it caused all sorts of uproar with the local committee.
Nevermind that we spent the entire amount getting a competition air rifle, just like we said we would.
Never mind it was the exact model of air rifle specified in the grant (came with lots of pellets and extras).
Caused all sorts of uproar because we got it on this site, not with vendor X.
Now I hear you have to spend the grant money with the NRA grant store?
Are you kidding me?
No more FRNA grants for us.
No thanks.
This is just so darn frustrating ... it keeps getting worse.
Our practice ammo of choice is SK STD+.
When I order it in case quantity it is $4.15 per box.
As I was looking at our grant request, the NRA store is charging $6.05 per box... no discounts for quantity .... that is a whopping 46% increase in price.
WTH are they doing with that extra money that is collected by the state committees? All this seems to me is a way for the NRA to keep more of the money that should go to the state committees. 46% ??????????
On top of that our state committee is ALWAYS getting requests from the NRA national programs for state committee money ... this year I'll be arguing against sending any money to national programs .... they are now taking a lot more than they should be. This was supposed to be a 50-50 deal, and now with over-inflated prices it's now like 1/3 - 2/3.
I'm more than slightly irritated.
Our practice ammo of choice is SK STD+.
When I order it in case quantity it is $4.15 per box.
As I was looking at our grant request, the NRA store is charging $6.05 per box... no discounts for quantity .... that is a whopping 46% increase in price.
WTH are they doing with that extra money that is collected by the state committees? All this seems to me is a way for the NRA to keep more of the money that should go to the state committees. 46% ??????????
On top of that our state committee is ALWAYS getting requests from the NRA national programs for state committee money ... this year I'll be arguing against sending any money to national programs .... they are now taking a lot more than they should be. This was supposed to be a 50-50 deal, and now with over-inflated prices it's now like 1/3 - 2/3.
I'm more than slightly irritated.
Hello,jhmartin wrote:I'm going to go out on a limb here.
Just got word that NRA got better pricing from Wolf ... the grant store is expecting to be a much better price on Monday.
Kevin listens......
Your previous post alluded that the store is carrying SK+ ammo (or Wolf Equivalent), but I don't see it listed. Where can it be seen? It will be interested if they actually post a better price.
To see the store you have to be filling out a grant application. Go to section 7, and near the bottom of the page is the link to the Merchandise Center Catalog.randy1952 wrote:Your previous post alluded that the store is carrying SK+ ammo (or Wolf Equivalent), but I don't see it listed. Where can it be seen? It will be interested if they actually post a better price.
You can see what they have in the Ammunition|Rimfire section.
Currently they have Aguila, Eley red & black, & SK match & STD+.
I'll be watching too as the difference in what I order per year is now about $600, and that should go to other programs in our state.