New Junior 3P Smallbore shooter's Dad

[daviscustom]

My son just finished up with a CMP camp in Missouri and had a good time. Says he is interested in continuing and definitely wants to go back next year. Getting ready to fix up a Mossberg 144 sla with an adjustable butt plate for him to continue with until we are sure he's hooked.

In the mean time thinking about getting set up to shoot with him...with the idea that the rifle I use will be for him if he continues. My Dad has a lefty Anschutz 1413 (right hand action) I was thinking of setting up for right handed use for myself. Looking for suggestions as to which stock to look for. He is pretty skinny and not very strong yet (13 years old) so I want to choose the best option while also trying to keep the weight down as much as possible. An 1807 stock has been recommended to me by one of the camp coaches....any other ideas.

Curious about the 1607 stock for sale on the forum, cool looking stock but nothing adjustable....could put a butt plate on it I guess. I think it is checkered on the grip and forend which I would like the looks of over the black textured stuff on the new ones, but I know nothing about how suitable the stock would be for my purposes. Any input appreciated.

[daviscustom]

Am I in the wrong section? Lots of lookers, but no input so far. One of my sons coaches at camp recommended this forum for info and used gear.

We don't have a local CMP club and my son is in Scouts instead of 4-H so I am in the situation of having to be my sons coach... along with my Dad who was a Smallbore/highpower shooter in the 70's. I've done some competitive shooting but more action stuff instead of paper punching. My main interest in shooting 3-P myself is so I can be a better coach for my son.

I just finished fitting an adjustable butt pad from a Rem 540x (donated to the cause by a generous coach) and installing it on his Mossberg. I am currently finishing up a palm rest that I built for the rifle as well (it has a longer rail installed on the fore-end). Just ordered a kneeling roll and a jumbo hand stop from Champ. Choice so he should be ready to resume practice in a week or so. He used a CMP 540x at camp which was actually a little heavier than the Mossy so once we get the rifle to fit him he should be ready to go. Suggestions welcome.

A couple of things that would be handy to know... will the 1607 stock fit the 1413 action? Is this stock going to be much heavier then the newer models like the 1807? I know the newer adjustable models would be nicer but I can make mods to this stock if it isn't way heavier or undesirable for some other reason.

[WRC]

I'm also surprised that nobody's answered. "All" 14, 16, 18, & 19 series actions should be reasonably interchangeable with all stocks. Starting with an xx07 stock is a good idea, you (your son :^) can always add more bits & pieces as he needs them.

Sounds like good advice from the camp coaches. You may want to stay in touch with them.

[Soupy44]

I try to guide the families of my junior program to make only one rifle purchase. Note our junior club has a number of Anschutz 1903s for the kids to borrow until they grow (both physically and technically) into an advanced rifle.

You mentioned there's no CMP rifle programs around you. You might look around for private clubs with junior programs. I don't know much about the smallbore scene out your way, but someone in here should know something.

In regard to my advice above about one rifle purchase, you somewhat fall outside of this since you already have a 54 action in your hands. The 1607 stock for sale I'd say would be a great buy at $275. If you don't grab it, I probably will for my junior program. Replacing the rail on it is no biggie. My mom grew up shooting that stock for 3P and used it through college and then handed it off to me when I was 10 and it served me very well until I was given a 1613 stock I shoot to this day.

My advice would be to buy the 1607 stock and drop the action you have in it. Let him use that for a few months and then buy or have someone make the hook butt plate that attaches where the rubber one is now on the 1607. Have your son set a goal score for when you'll get it for him. A little extra motivation never hurt anybody. Then give him another few months.

Next have someone install an adjustable cheek piece on it, or do it yourself. Again, have your son set a goal score for when you'll do this. Again, another few months.

Now start looking for an advanced stock. Check here, CC, CSS, PILK, everywhere for a used 1913, 1912, 2013, etc. Make sure it's for a round action though, not a square one. My club found a 2013 Aluminum stock on ebay for $1000. Wood stocks can go for less. Buy it, and then you can sell the stock you have easily for way more than the $275 you've paid for it.

I find it important for slowly introduce kids to their adjustments on the rifles because now comes the hard part: your son will tinker with this rifle to get it just right for 6 months minimum. Then he'll hit a growth spurt and take another few months to get it right again. The amount of adjustments on these rifle can be very overwhelming, but completely worth it.

And, you spend $275 on the stock, ~$40 for the rail (CC price), ~$125 for the butt plate (either CC or CSS price, don't remember which), ~$100 on cheek piece parts, for a total of $540 max (less the more work you do yourself and more you shop around). You could probably sell it at this point for more than that to help you pay for the advanced stock.

[daviscustom]

Thanks for the input, I think I will look at little harder at getting that stock. It's been a while since I have looked at the rifle but I think the 1413 has the hook butt plate and a bunch of other gear with it, so that would be even better. Don't know if they are all interchangeable or not.

Will the 54 barreled action with this stock be much heavier then a Rem 540x? The Mossberg I'm working on for him is noticeably lighter then the 540x and that is a plus at this point until he gets some meat on his bones.

[Soupy44]

I can't comment too much on the weight, but it will likely be a balancing act between how heavy the rifle is and how well the gun fits him. The better the fit, the more weight he'll be able to handle. I sold all my club's mossbergs and remingtons in order to buy guns like the one I've suggested you build here because of the better fit.

[daviscustom]

Soupy, I was very tempted to buy that stock, but after careful consideration I think I would rather wait and see how my son progresses and how he maintains his level of interest in the sport. My Dad has expressed an interest in dusting off the 1413 and shooting with us some as well so I don't want to take apart his rifle if that is the case. My son has been doing 3-P smallbore for only a couple of weeks, including a little practice before a local CMP camp. He enjoyed it and seems excited to go again next year, as well as he is interested shooting at some local matches. But this is all very new to him and I am trying not to jump in with both feet ....even though I REALLY want to.

In short that stock is yours if you want it.

This time next week we will be ready to do some more shooting. The palm rest is built and in the finishing process right now...looks like it will make night and day difference in his stability. I'll post a few pics when I get it done. Thanks for the input, and if anyone else wants to throw in their $0.02 feel free.

[Colorado]

Try and look for a junior program for your son to participate in. Look at both NRA and USA Shooting. Several adult clubs also have junior rifle programs.

Also, it would be benficial for you to attend a rifle coach school provided by CMP/NRA/USA Shooting. Even experienced shooters will learn from these classes.

[daviscustom]

That sounds like a good idea. The gentlemen who runs the camp my son attended asked if I wanted to help with the camp next year. I'll look on the CMP and NRA websites for training schedules. Do they have any kind of junior shooting program locater? I don't think there is anything in the area but 4-H.

[gtrisdale]

USA Shooting lists clubs in 3 Missouri towns - Columbia, Owensville and Raytown. Look on www.usashooting.com (under clubs) for more information.

According to the NRA website, the NRA vounteer youth coordinator for your state is:

Linn, MO
John Leinberger
Home Phone: 573.943.6632
coaches02@gmail.com

These seem like good places to start.

[daviscustom]

John is the fellow that runs the local camp. I have already emailed him for info. The closest town listed is an hour away. Doable for matches but a little much for practice, but I'll look into it.

[gtrisdale]

Quality coaching can make a difference in the success of any shooter. For a beginner, learning position and technique from a qualified coach will make the experience more enjoyable and productive. If the club that is an hour away from you has a junior program, it maybe worth the drive for the coaching.

[jhmartin]

The closest town listed is an hour away. Doable for matches but a little much for practice, but I'll look into it.

You might want to look into Air Rifle as a way to supplement "local" (home?) training. Building a suitable backstop is easy.

This is $0.02 on my part, but I've found that training 3 times per week for juniors is the point where they will advance. Less than that they will advance to a point and not be able to get much better. 2/3 of our training is on air rifle (Tues & Thurs ... range is 1/2 hour away) and 1/3 is SBR (Sat ... range is 40 minutes away). The juniors that really want to advance more are doing other training at home ... holding exercises, etc. If your live fire range is an hour away, there is more you can do at home to help that out.

If you are going to be the coach ... I agree with getting to a Coach School and get your Level 1, and then because you are the parent as well sign up and take the ASEP online courses that will help you get into the coach/parent role.

[Guest]

I actually live in the country and we can shoot any thing we want any time we want. It's the access to coaching and the interaction with a group that we are lacking.

I was in 4-H as a kid but we didn't have a shooting program back then....are the local clubs structured so that a kid could join just for the shooting program? I'm an Assistant Scoutmaster with our local troop and I have no interest in adding another thing to the schedule unless it could just be a regular shooting practice and competitions. I realize I need to talk to the local folks... but I was just curious how the 4-H folks in general might respond to such an idea.

[daviscustom]

I didn't realize you could post without logging in.... the "guest" post was me.

[TraLfaz]

I actually live in the country and we can shoot any thing we want any time we want. It's the access to coaching and the interaction with a group that we are lacking.

I was in 4-H as a kid but we didn't have a shooting program back then....are the local clubs structured so that a kid could join just for the shooting program? I'm an Assistant Scoutmaster with our local troop and I have no interest in adding another thing to the schedule unless it could just be a regular shooting practice and competitions. I realize I need to talk to the local folks... but I was just curious how the 4-H folks in general might respond to such an idea.

I am a 4-H shooting instructor and I can tell you that you do not have to be in a 4-H club to be a member of 4-H shooting sports. Find a local 4-H club and have fun. PM me if you have any questions.

[jhmartin]

I am a 4-H shooting instructor and I can tell you that you do not have to be in a 4-H club to be a member of 4-H shooting sports. Find a local 4-H club and have fun. PM me if you have any questions.

TraLfaz .... depends on the State and even County you live in ... here in our county you must be a member of a club ... even if you only go once a year to "sign up".

Our shooting sports programs (in our county) are "outside" of the clubs and we have members from all the clubs in the county. Again, this will depend on the state & county ... normally all that is necessary is a volunteer that is willing to be the project leader/instructor/coach.

[daviscustom]

Thought that might be the case...thanks.

[stevehdz]

How about taking an NRA Rifle coaches class?

While it does not make up for years of experience it does give you a lot of information and gives you the information on proper positions. It would be a jumpstart on your knowledge of the sport and also what a proper postion looks like. That way if you only go once or twice a month to a junior program an hour away you will be out there getting tweaked. Not doing it all from scratch. I took the coach class and I was suprised at the amount of info in the course.

Again though, an experience coach can see things in a minute that you can't so you still would need to go to a program somewhere.

[daviscustom]

I plan to get in touch with the local 4-H group to see what level of membership/involvement is required to be in their shooting program. Don't know if they do 3-P SB or not, but I know they have an active shooting program. It's been so stink'n hot for the last few weeks that we haven't been doing much shooting and the state fair is coming up soon so I'm sure they are busy.

John Leinberger ( the fellow mentioned in an earlier post) suggested helping coach with the 4-H program....go through their training.....then look into the NRA class later when I have more experience coaching.