Silhouette sporter

[4hmatt]

I am a 4H leader and plan on going to the national invitational. When looking at the rules posted by Texas I am confused on what classifies a sporter rifle for silhouette (NRA 3.3b). Can anyone help me on this matter? Also does anyone have a good suggestion on what is a good rifle to purchase. Thank you

[jhmartin]

Matt .... Air or Smallbore?

Texas has General Rules & Event Summarys here:
http://shootingsports.tamu.edu/
Look on the left side for the 2010 Nationals Info

In general any smallbore rifle that is less than 10.2 lbs and meets the Hi-Power measurements is fine for the smallbore event. A 10.2 lb rifle is pretty hefty BTW

On the Air, any legal CMP sporter is fine ... although they did let the Air Arms MPRs shoot last year in Nebraska ... iffy if someone who knows the rifles is doing equipment check.

[4hmatt]

I am questioning the air rifle event and I did view the rules previous to my question. Last year NE allowed all high velocity powed, 1000 fps , air rifles including springers and break barrels.

In reading the rule 3.3b, I am unclear if these high powered rifles are allowed this year. CMP rules clarifies Sporter Air Rifle as less than $525, and under 600 fps, this NRA rule is very confusing knowing what NE allowed last year. I am new at this so any help in clarifing rules would be very helpful. Thanks Matt

[jhmartin]

Hey Matt ....

OK you are correct, you can use the 3.3b rifles (as they did last year) as well as the CMP sporters.

The rules have not changed this year, and it appears that TX is going with that. Note that the 1000 fps rifles are only allowed on the silhouette range as they could damage the backstops that are used in the 3-P and INTL (standing) competitions.

Other than that, if it's OTC, less than 11lbs, and .177 you should be good.
Springers and break bbls are allowed as long as they do not fall into the Target category .... excepting those CMP sporters that are allowed.
Remember, the CMP sporters allowed are all specifically named in the (4-H) rules

I'd like to hear from any coaches that had kids use a 1000fps gun last year as any testing I've done with domed pellets has not really impressed me at speeds that fast ... if you've had good results what rifles are you using?

Matt .... 4-H made this confusing last year when they modified the rule to allow those springers about 4 weeks prior to the Nationals .... I'm pretty sure that changes won't happen this year as the "National Committee" scrubbed the Texas documents pretty thoroughly

Good luck to your kids!.

[4hmatt]

Thank you for the information.

Our state used a Air Arms XT200MKIII last year in NE. The team did good, but this gun seems to be classified a hunter air rifle and field target gun, so I wasn't sure if it is classified as a sporter air rifle. What do you know about this gun...anything?

I don't want us to show up with it again, and leave the kids hanging with no silhouette gun. It seemed that this gun caused a lot of questions during the coaches meeting.

[4hmatt]

ooops....TX200MKIII, 930fps

[jhmartin]

OK Matt ..... do you mean TX200-MKIII?
From my view that is a legal Sporter Silhouette Air Rifle
* 9.3 lbs
*.177 cal
* Over the Counter
* "Sporter Looking"
You should have no trouble getting that thru inspection.
There is no price restriction in the NRA event

It is not legal, however, for the 3-P or the INTL events

[4hmatt]

Thanks again, You have been a great help.

[jhmartin]

It seemed that this gun caused a lot of questions during the coaches meeting.

Again, the most probable reason for the discussion was that most coaches did not get (download) the event synopsis 4 weeks before the nationals that added the more powerful springers.

Hey, it's 4-H, and it has been wise in the past few years to keep checking the website for updates. To many, this addition of rifles was done so late in the game that is appeared not to be fair. (Note I had a smallbore team there last year, not an air team) I was one opposed to the change so late, but to add another change would have only further led to MORE confusion. I do not oppose those rifles at all (50m with 10m sporters is ridiculous), but I did not like the late addition.

The rule is good now .... everyone has had a full year to get ready, ..... appropriate rifles are selected (3.3b) as well as allowing teams with limited funding to shoot the same rifles they do in the other two events (the CMP sporters).

I'd love to see some 50m groups with your rifles.
(Note, just so you don't think I'd "scoop" you, VC4HSS won't be sending an air team to nationals this year)

Oh ... the ONLY thing to worry about .... maybe .... is that if these rifles damage the range's silhouette's, they can disallow the use of them .... so do some extra testing on your own chickens and turkeys (the two most susceptible to the legs breaking) to make sure you are not dialed up too hot.

[4hmatt]

Last year was our first national. We are trying to hold matches in Small Bore, Air Rifle, Archery and Muzzle Loader.

It is a lot to comprehend with all the rules.

I'm looking into small bore, as my son would like to qualify for that. He had a great time in AR last year and did better than we expected.

I'm not sure of what gun would be appropriate for all three matches, I understand that a lot of kids are going with 3 guns, is that necessisary? Flight and travel with three guns can get coastly. Do you have any good suggestions of Small Bore Rifle?

[jhmartin]

I'm looking into small bore, as my son would like to qualify for that. He had a great time in AR last year and did better than we expected.

I'm not sure of what gun would be appropriate for all three matches, I understand that a lot of kids are going with 3 guns, is that necessisary? Flight and travel with three guns can get coastly. Do you have any good suggestions of Small Bore Rifle?

I'm a proponent of 3 rifles for the smallbore rifle discipline.
HOWEVER, the way that 4-H scores overall individual and team events (the so called "track meet" method) a team can do VERY WELL if they are shooting only two rifles, and can shoot them well.

A ruger 10-22 (or any accurate magazine fed ... SA or bolt) rifle is great for the NRA Silhouette and the CMP Rimfire Sporter events.
For the NRA 3-P event you really need a single shot as you are only allowed to load one bullet at a time there.

My shooters use 10-22's for the Rimfire Sporter

A mix of 10-22's, a Kimber 82-G, and Remington 513's are what we use for silhouette .... shooters preference really.

For NRA 3-P:

All my (Senior 4-H "core") shooters shoot Olympic style rifles for 3-P as they shoot most of their competitions under USA Shooting rules. Currently, they all now shoot Anschutz 1912's or 1913's (OUCH - $3500ea w/sights)

We also have four Izhmash CM-2 Cadets .... one has a 10" sight extension tube installed ... that rifle with a tube installed is just under $700. Do a search for CM-2 and I've posted a picture in this post:
viewtopic.php?t=22266&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
Is it accurate ... you bet ... we loaned it to a high school shooter for our JO Qualifier in December, and she fired an automatic qualifying score with it and is taking it to the JO's next month.
One of our shooters also shot this rifle last year at Nationals and shot well with it.

Whatever 3-P gun you choose, put aperture sights on it ... even those off of the Daisy Air rifles are good for the 50yd match)

If you want to see some of the rifles we used last year, here are some of our pictures:
http://www.vc4hss.com/VC4HSS_PHOTOS/emA ... onals&tn=1

In summary, you can easily get by with 2 guns, and you don't have to spend a fortune .... and ..... your kids can place well.

[4hmatt]

Hey thanks alot, much good information. I did look at some of these small bore, and it is helpful to hear from someone who uses them.

NJ has high hopes to send all these teams but we will see how the scores are in the upcoming matches. I'm not sure that we are ready to send in all these disciplines. Who knows.... maybe we will see you on the small bore line.