Today I did my 6th shooting. The instructor told me that my goal should be tight groupings instead of aiming for 10s = focus more on same aim pattern than numbers.
To me this sounded like a good idea. What is your opinion on this? How do you guys practise?
Tight groups
Moderators: pilkguns, m1963, Isabel1130
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Philadelphia
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Re: Tight groups
Tight groups result from proper process executed consistently. Once you get that you can adjust the sights to hit whatever you are aiming at.New kid on the block wrote:Today I did my 6th shooting. The instructor told me that my goal should be tight groupings instead of aiming for 10s = focus more on same aim pattern than numbers.
To me this sounded like a good idea. What is your opinion on this? How do you guys practise?
I've always considered this to be the guide:
http://mclaacdet1049.org/Rifle-Pistol_T ... pguide.pdf
You have to not only read it but understand it. Good shooting really is as simple as aligning the sights on target and breaking the shot without disturbing the foregoing. It can take a few years to really understand that one sentence. It can take a lifetime to do it as written. Have fun!
Oh, and before I forget -- here's a good workbook of exercises courtesy of Brian Zins (click on "download pistol team workbook"). The exercises are self explanatory. To actually accomplish them your instructor can help you a lot.
http://www.brianzins.com/downloads.shtml
That gun is ammo picky, first I would suggest finding which ammo the gun likes, it will lean towards european ammo.
After you get the ammo thing out of the equation, listen to your coach, but also ask questions about, gripping, trigger finger, breathing, stance, sight alignment, point of aim, shooting glass prescriptions and irises, creating a training plan, keeping a dairy, stress and coping, mental education, and competition.
And there are many other things you will get curious about, all those combined will keep you busy for the rest of your shooting days.
We all can shoot tens, it is important to find and develop the understanding to identify what is blocking our way, so you can improve toward a natural ten.
Good luck and don't forget to clean that gun, it is a pain because it gets dirty so easily, but it only takes 15 seconds to take it apart, the gun thanks you for the cleaning.
After you get the ammo thing out of the equation, listen to your coach, but also ask questions about, gripping, trigger finger, breathing, stance, sight alignment, point of aim, shooting glass prescriptions and irises, creating a training plan, keeping a dairy, stress and coping, mental education, and competition.
And there are many other things you will get curious about, all those combined will keep you busy for the rest of your shooting days.
We all can shoot tens, it is important to find and develop the understanding to identify what is blocking our way, so you can improve toward a natural ten.
Good luck and don't forget to clean that gun, it is a pain because it gets dirty so easily, but it only takes 15 seconds to take it apart, the gun thanks you for the cleaning.
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New kid on the block
Paulo,
I'm from Europe and should not experience the problems you mention (read this thread: http://www.targettalk.org/viewtopic.php?t=21193 ).
Still think AW93 is a true winner ;o)
I'm from Europe and should not experience the problems you mention (read this thread: http://www.targettalk.org/viewtopic.php?t=21193 ).
Still think AW93 is a true winner ;o)
Your instructor is right!
Use cheap ammo for practice until you'll be able to get tight group 2.5" or less.
Don't adjust your sights, it is not important for beginners.
With any 22LR ammo you can shoot 2" groups if you shoot right.
Run bore snake every 1000 rounds through your barrel and do complete cleaning every 5000 rounds.
You are shooter, not cleaner.
Pay attention to sight alliment, aiming point,pistol grip, and trigger pull.
And most important is concentration.
Expensive ammo like Winchester T22,Eley tennex,RWS are not gonna help you to achieve high scores.
Try to avoid chicken finger.
Try to aim to sub 6 and it will increase your scores.
Do not dry fire as long as you have a lot of extra time.
Open sights is the best and option as long as you have a good eyes.
Camp Perry record 2700 still belongs to open sights.
WalMart ammo is cheap enough to not to dry fire.
You will not to break or wear out even expensive pistols by using cheap ammo.
Shoot at least 500-100 rounds a week and take your time.
I mean slow fire 10 shots (10-15 minutes).
Don't shoot fast fire antil your scores are 90 and up for slow fire.
I'm using cheap ammo in AW93,IZH35 and TOZ35 for practice and don't have any problems.
Use cheap ammo for practice until you'll be able to get tight group 2.5" or less.
Don't adjust your sights, it is not important for beginners.
With any 22LR ammo you can shoot 2" groups if you shoot right.
Run bore snake every 1000 rounds through your barrel and do complete cleaning every 5000 rounds.
You are shooter, not cleaner.
Pay attention to sight alliment, aiming point,pistol grip, and trigger pull.
And most important is concentration.
Expensive ammo like Winchester T22,Eley tennex,RWS are not gonna help you to achieve high scores.
Try to avoid chicken finger.
Try to aim to sub 6 and it will increase your scores.
Do not dry fire as long as you have a lot of extra time.
Open sights is the best and option as long as you have a good eyes.
Camp Perry record 2700 still belongs to open sights.
WalMart ammo is cheap enough to not to dry fire.
You will not to break or wear out even expensive pistols by using cheap ammo.
Shoot at least 500-100 rounds a week and take your time.
I mean slow fire 10 shots (10-15 minutes).
Don't shoot fast fire antil your scores are 90 and up for slow fire.
I'm using cheap ammo in AW93,IZH35 and TOZ35 for practice and don't have any problems.
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Steve Swartz as Guest
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2650 Plus
Small group
Another small disagreement. The feed back you get from a properly delivered shot is more valuable than a guess from dry firing. That shot hole ,right on call is invaluable as it confirms all you are striving to do. Please dont misunderstand however, dry firing is just as valuable as it allows you to see every thing that happens when the striker falls with out the distracting element of recoil and muzzel blast that occurs in live fire. Steve is a strong proponent of dry firing against a blank wall to develope a strong basis for future sucess. My background is diferent as I am convinced that the hole in the target is the strongest reinforcement for a properly executed shot delivery. Good Shooting Bill Horton
I find dry firing against a blank wall extremely dry and boring. A reason to run away from shooting, indeed. While shooting live at the range is at least some fun, even if you only have hit the target frame.
Nevertheless, I feel that Steve is right (for most shooters) and Bill is wrong (again, for most shooters). I have fired many a seemingly "properly delivered shot" (hah!), only to be bewildered by where the hole eventually was. Whereas dry training shows me candidly and mercilessly how and where I flinched or jerked, and where the sights were.
It is an excellent discipline; and like most discipline, it is not satisfying. For immediate satisfaction in contrast, .22 HyperVels delivered into over-ripe oranges are an excellent recipe... ;-)
Alexander
Nevertheless, I feel that Steve is right (for most shooters) and Bill is wrong (again, for most shooters). I have fired many a seemingly "properly delivered shot" (hah!), only to be bewildered by where the hole eventually was. Whereas dry training shows me candidly and mercilessly how and where I flinched or jerked, and where the sights were.
It is an excellent discipline; and like most discipline, it is not satisfying. For immediate satisfaction in contrast, .22 HyperVels delivered into over-ripe oranges are an excellent recipe... ;-)
Alexander
May I add that I practice dry firing on a target that I have hung 35 feet away from me and is somewhat smaller that the B-2 so it looks the same to me as the B-2 at 50 feet. Yes it's boring but it has helped raise my centerfire scores some 20-30 points. Dryfiring has also been a valuable tool for me when I'm trying out a new pair of grips for my 1911 or my S&W 41. I find that some grips that are just a hair thicker or ones that cover the front strap are easier for me to hold on the black and don't let my gun move around like thinner grips. I never would have noticed this while live fire shooting but in dryfire the difference was night and day for me and has made a big difference in matches.
I dryfire every night, sometimes for only a few shots and other times for up to 1/2 hour. I let my mood of the day dictate how long I'll do it.
I dryfire every night, sometimes for only a few shots and other times for up to 1/2 hour. I let my mood of the day dictate how long I'll do it.
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Philadelphia
- Posts: 170
- Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2009 4:52 pm
It is much more satisfying to deliver the lead pellet into an over-ripe orange at 50 yds. ;)Alexander wrote:For immediate satisfaction in contrast, .22 HyperVels delivered into over-ripe oranges are an excellent recipe... ;-)
Alexander
Plinking is a lot of fun but at some point you have to learn to shoot.
Bill and Steve are both correct. You need both to be great at this sport. The balance between the two is what you need to figure out for yourself. You can learn a lot by dry firing but if you do not have some mixture of live fire then you could be training and not realize you are doing something while dry firing that does not show up until you fire a live round. I spend lots of time using Rika and since I do not get enough live fire training I still struggle in slow fire. Something is not transfering for me from dry fire on Rika to a match. I think it is a lack of live fire training. With my .22 I have not shot it as much as my free pistol and I can train with my FP only drying firing and shoot a great match.
It all comes down to how much history you have and what level you are shooting at. In the beginning I think you need about a 50-50 split between the two.
It all comes down to how much history you have and what level you are shooting at. In the beginning I think you need about a 50-50 split between the two.
I'm not great and never will be but I do okay. I'm going to add my two cents in here and agree with some of the other posters.
Use a consistent hold on the target, don't go playing games with Kentucky windage to try to put the shots where you want them to go.
Don't chase the shot with your sights, in other words, don't fire a shot and then try to adjust the sights to put the shot where you want. If your shots are on the paper, don't fiddle with them until you consistently shoot groupings that are roughly circular. Then you can fiddle with the sights and move the center of that group up to the ten ring.
During live fire sessions, pick one thing each time to focus on. Not focus with your eyes, focus as in concentrate. One time focus on sight alignment. Then work on trigger control. Then maybe follow through. Breathing. Eventually they'll all come together and you won't even have to think about any of it . . . most of the time. In my case, even after nearly 40 years, I still have to work on trigger control. Fortunately, I don't have to worry about the sights anymore or breathing either.
One other thing . . . dry fire.
Use a consistent hold on the target, don't go playing games with Kentucky windage to try to put the shots where you want them to go.
Don't chase the shot with your sights, in other words, don't fire a shot and then try to adjust the sights to put the shot where you want. If your shots are on the paper, don't fiddle with them until you consistently shoot groupings that are roughly circular. Then you can fiddle with the sights and move the center of that group up to the ten ring.
During live fire sessions, pick one thing each time to focus on. Not focus with your eyes, focus as in concentrate. One time focus on sight alignment. Then work on trigger control. Then maybe follow through. Breathing. Eventually they'll all come together and you won't even have to think about any of it . . . most of the time. In my case, even after nearly 40 years, I still have to work on trigger control. Fortunately, I don't have to worry about the sights anymore or breathing either.
One other thing . . . dry fire.