New irrational proposals of the ISSF committees

[RobinC]

If you think all this is crazy you should look at the new post in the shooters lounge regarding new ISSF rules.
This time they improved their security and we only found out when they announced the new interpretation of the rules, they have banned jeans from shooting apparal in ISSF events! Yes seriously!
Best regards
Robin

[David Levene]

This time they improved their security and we only found out when they announced the new interpretation of the rules, they have banned jeans from shooting apparal in ISSF events!

Remember though that, apart from in ISSF supervised competitions and championships, match organisers are perfectly free to say they won't be applying the interpretations. At my club, for example, it will be discussed at a committee meeting on Saturday. I have no doubt that a "common sense" decision will be reached.

For the overwhelming majority of shooters this will never be an issue.

[RobinC]

David
Yes of course, I fully concur with your comment, us club and county shooters will aply common sense and just ignore it, but we should not be put in the position of having to.
We had the blinder rule, changed only for television at the premier level but it's enforced to the letter at most events. What would happen at the British Air championships for instance, jeans or no jeans? And shooters with international aspirations will need to train and practice in the same kit that they must wear at those matches.
I find it silly that we are even discussing this, I think the ISSF have surely lost the plot, terms used in the interpretation document such as "prohibited" in relation to "blue jeans, jeans and similar trousers" are massive overkill to what is a problem that could have been solved by a simple polite guidance to national bodies on "preferred" dress code for teams at international events.
Best regards
Robin

[Alexander]

Remember though that, apart from in ISSF supervised competitions and championships, match organisers are perfectly free to say they won't be applying the interpretations. (...)
For the overwhelming majority of shooters this will never be an issue.

David is correct. You can bet your third teeth against a EM-GE blank pistol that the interpretation will*not* be applied in Germany (DSB) either.

And if the top shooters within the ISSF frame simply disregard it as the silliness it is, it will tacitly fall into disuse and that into subsequent abeyance with ISSF competitions too. What are the organisers supposed to do if all the top 5 or top 6 participants wear blue jeans? Ban them? Ridiculous, and juries / judges are not likely to do this either.

Alexander

[David Levene]

And if the top shooters within the ISSF frame simply disregard it as the silliness it is, it will tacitly fall into disuse and that into subsequent abeyance with ISSF competitions too. What are the organisers supposed to do if all the top 5 or top 6 participants wear blue jeans?

That won't happen. We will simply return to the position where team managers tell their team members what they are expected to wear. Team managers will apply the interpretation for fear of having a shooter disqualified. If the shooters don't like it then they won't be selected to shoot for their country again.

[Alexander]

Team managers will apply the interpretation for fear of having a shooter disqualified. If the shooters don't like it then they won't be selected to shoot for their country again.

As if e.g. the UK had any excess of selectable shooters. If the handfull of competitive athletes are united, the team managers have no choice. Same true and even truer for Germany, where the federation is under significant political medal pressure (govt. money subsidies).

[Richard H]

Ahletes will never be united on anything because the fear that someone else won't and take they're spot. Just look at the crap that ahletes put up with to regards to drug testing. No normal person in their right mind would allow themselves to be subjected to such nonsense, random drug testing at 5 in the morning ,9 o'clock at night, 24/7 report of your where abouts. So rules about pants won't get that much attention.

As has been said before the ISSF has zero intrest in the health of the sport their sole focus is the damn Olympics. They will ruin the sport at the behest of the IOC jsut so the powers that be can keep their nice junkets.

[Alexander]

Ahletes will never be united on anything because the fear that someone else won't

Sigh. Maybe true. :-( I rest my case, ad interim...

[David Levene]

If the handfull of competitive athletes are united, the team managers have no choice.

That will never happen. Top shooters go through too much to represent their country to risk alienating team management over something as trivial as being required to wear a track suit.

[Richard H]

Gotta love the Brits, never met a rule they didn't like, yes sir may I have another.

They don't get the fact that yes this is little, the next rule will be little as well, so will the rules after that. Then when you look back after they destroyed the sport it will be too late.

You eat the elephant one bite at a time not in one mouthful.

[David Levene]

Gotta love the Brits, never met a rule they didn't like, yes sir may I have another.

Do you think any nation's shooters will be different?

Just watch the World Cups and World Championships this year and see everone wearing track suits.

[Richard H]

Nope, it just always amazes me how quick the British are to accept what ever is forced upon them without so much as a complaint. When comes to the over zealousness of rule interpretation and enforcement for events lesser than World Cup level I'm sure the UK will lead the way thereto.

[David Levene]

Nope, it just always amazes me how quick the British are to accept what ever is forced upon them without so much as a complaint.

Such as?

[Alexander]

Nope, it just always amazes me how quick the British are to accept what ever is forced upon them without so much as a complaint.

Such as?

Firearms laws?

[David Levene]

Nope, it just always amazes me how quick the British are to accept what ever is forced upon them without so much as a complaint.

Such as?

Firearms laws?

You don't think there were any complaints about them?

[TomN]

As has been said before the ISSF has zero intrest in the health of the sport their sole focus is the damn Olympics.

This may be true of most high-level sporting organizations, and certainly true within the Olympic movement in every sport. I'll point out here that the NRA in the US has bucked this trend recently, instituting new championships that are more accessible to civilian shooters (as opposed to military, OTC or collegiate athletes on scholarship.) There will be a national championship for non-scholarship, non-NCAA collegiate shooters this spring, and a "metric" championship this summer for shooters that do not affiliate with USA Shooting. I think this is all to the good. Let's face it: If competitive marksmanship is to survive, it must increase its participation base. Anything that keeps shooters at home (damned fool rules and hidden costs not the least) harms the sport. Get the shooters to some matches instead of hunkering down at their home ranges! Then the sport will at least have a chance.

[Richard H]

Any of the numerous rules discussions on hear that we have had for years, those from the UK seem to attack them with zeal (anecdotally of course). From Blinders, to coat and trouser changes, to the dreaded noise cancelling headphones which the Brits decried were banned despite official rulings to the contrary from the ISSF themselves, to this latest bit of telling everyone what to wear.

I wouldn't hold them to task for handgun bans because short of an armed revolution and going to jail I doubt there was much they could have done. I also hazard to guess we are all just a few short steps from the same fate, including those in the US, given the right set of circumstances.

[David Levene]

Any of the numerous rules discussions on hear that we have had for years, those from the UK seem to attack them with zeal (anecdotally of course). From Blinders, to coat and trouser changes, to the dreaded noise cancelling headphones which the Brits decried were banned despite official rulings to the contrary from the ISSF themselves, to this latest bit of telling everyone what to wear.

Maybe, as proved to be the case with the recent rifle clothing proposals, some of us didn't immediately read something that wasn't there ("bring forward 2011").

Not certain what you're talking about with regard to electronic earmuffs. I can't remember any shooters wanting to use them. Several of us tried but the noise of cases hitting things was too distracting. As for the "official rulings" from the ISSF, the only written comment I can remember from them was Franz Schreiber's reply to Philip Lee's email dated 10th March 2004; and that was specifically for Peltor muffs. Was there some other correspondence I missed (not that it would change anything).

How do you come to the conclusion that it's the Brit's who are telling everyone what to wear.

[Richard H]

How do you come to the conclusion that it's the Brit's who are telling everyone what to wear.

Didn't say Brit's are telling people what to wear, said Brits don't seem to have a problem being told what to wear.

Like I said it's anecdotal, maybe it's just that prim and proper personality that has been finely honed over all these years.

[RobinC]

Richard H
No, you are wrong, having travelled extensively around the world including spending much time in the States I can asure you that we as a race don't give in to any thing and are probably more anarchic than most, have you ever driven in England? what speed limit?
Our Firearms laws were imposed on us shooters (less than 100 thousand of us) by non shooters and politicians (60 million), other than open armed insurection what do you suggest we do? We are actually still fighting 13 years after through the political system, a massive petition went in only a short while ago.
As for the ISSF rules, including this stupid jeans thing we are up there fighting, did you contact the ISSF to complain? I did. We have more to lose than you, The US is so big you can be independant and to a greater extent is, if we turn inwards our sport will suffer, my home is closer to Holland and Europe than most of England, we had a group from our club shoot on the continent at the week end, easier than you going to most events in the US or Canada.
Don't lets fight amongs our selves, we need to concentrate our efforts on stopping this, if you want to do something constructive contact the ISSF athletes committee chairman juha.hirvi@hirvishooting.fi
good shooting and long may we shoot in jeans
Best regards
Robin