Cm-2 rifle
Moderators: pilkguns, Marcus, m1963, David Levene, Spencer
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Senator Vitaman
- Posts: 24
- Joined: Tue Jun 23, 2009 10:39 pm
Cm-2 rifle
What's everyone's opinions of the CM-2 rifle? How accurate and durable is it? How are the sights and trigger? Also, is there a U.S. supplier for components, if it breaks and I can't import them I want to be able to repair it. I've also heard that they use non-standard sights and rails, is this true?
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checkenbach
- Posts: 17
- Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2008 2:57 am
There's a large following of this rifle on Rimfire Central, most have bought older, used models and refurbished them, a few have bought new ones.
The rails and sights are different, but they are quite accurate for the money. The new one's trigger only adjust as low as sixteen oz, the older one's go below sixteen oz. As far as support, I don't think anyone has had one break yet, or if they do, multiple parts rifles may be the answer.
The rails and sights are different, but they are quite accurate for the money. The new one's trigger only adjust as low as sixteen oz, the older one's go below sixteen oz. As far as support, I don't think anyone has had one break yet, or if they do, multiple parts rifles may be the answer.
Last edited by checkenbach on Fri Jun 26, 2009 9:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Senator Vitaman
- Posts: 24
- Joined: Tue Jun 23, 2009 10:39 pm
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checkenbach
- Posts: 17
- Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2008 2:57 am
I don't know about the heaviest trigger pull available, most are concerned with the lightest weight. There's a new style CM-2 for sale on Rimfire Central right now for $525.00 shipped, Awesome deal from one of the primary CM-2 cheerleaders there.
As for the multiple parts gun quip, some have bought parts guns from a few importers for cheap, mostly due to missing sights, cracked stocks etc...
As for the multiple parts gun quip, some have bought parts guns from a few importers for cheap, mostly due to missing sights, cracked stocks etc...
CM-2
Hi,
Welcome to the forum.
I own a new CM-2 purchased from Mac Tilton. I wanted a target rifle that wouldn't break the bank, and I own a Russian shot gun that won't win a beauty pagent but shoots very well. So, I had some faith in the russians and decided that I would like a CM-2. It shoots much better than I do at the time, but I have no real definitive measurements because I haven't shot it bench rest. Since that time, and shooting a little bit I've become fascinated with position shooting, read ways of the rifle, and decided that I would like a few things changed... an adjustable rear iris, more selection on the front aperature, an accessory rail that accepts standard aftermarket parts. Since I was sending the stock out to get an Anschutz rail installed I decided to have an adjustable cheek piece installed and have the action bedded. I found a used HPS tr butt plate and am almost finished installing that and reforming the grip. In about a week I think I'll be done with the stock and finally able to do some real ammo testing with the modifications.
Most of the things that I wanted to change are fairly easy, if you have some tools and patience. The front sight is threaded with coarse threads where anschutz are threaded with fine.... this means that an adjustable iris won't fit. But you can take a nail file to the plastic inserts and shave a little off and they will. The rear sight is more problematic. They are threaded 9 mm X 1mm where standard is 9.5 mm x 1mm. 9.5 x 1 mm is not a standard tap size. There is an english equivilant that is close and would work with a little thread lock or teflon tape on the iris. I had a tap made so the fit would be perfect and it is. If you have a router installing a rail would not be too difficult. The adjustable cheek piece and different butt plate are just a bonus because tips were good this winter.
I'm not sure how heavy the trigger goes but it goes lighter than I feel confident setting it at.
I'm not trying to talk you out of a CM-2, I'm just trying to show you what I went through to really set it up for 3p. If your looking at shooting other disciplines you may not want or feel the need to do these things. I think the deal for old sweedes rifle is that. A nice deal. The M Werks scope mount was custom fitted to that rifle. I saw his and called Jeff at M Werks to have him make me one too. (fantasic guy by the way). It remounts with 1/4 MOA accuracy.
Right now I can tell you that I have more in upgrades than I paid for the rifle, but it's now custom fitted and I've still have over a thousand less than what a new Anschutz Supermatch would cost me. I'll be able to see just how well it's now shooting in about a week. Could I have purchased a used Anschutz for less.... really I don't know. I didn't have that much money available and was able to do most of the upgrades over time as my cash allowed. Give Mac Tilton a call and see what he has available in your price range and for the purpose you intend... if you've read through all this and really like the CM-2 Old Swede's deals hard to beat.
Shoot alot of 10's with whatever you choose.
Sean
Welcome to the forum.
I own a new CM-2 purchased from Mac Tilton. I wanted a target rifle that wouldn't break the bank, and I own a Russian shot gun that won't win a beauty pagent but shoots very well. So, I had some faith in the russians and decided that I would like a CM-2. It shoots much better than I do at the time, but I have no real definitive measurements because I haven't shot it bench rest. Since that time, and shooting a little bit I've become fascinated with position shooting, read ways of the rifle, and decided that I would like a few things changed... an adjustable rear iris, more selection on the front aperature, an accessory rail that accepts standard aftermarket parts. Since I was sending the stock out to get an Anschutz rail installed I decided to have an adjustable cheek piece installed and have the action bedded. I found a used HPS tr butt plate and am almost finished installing that and reforming the grip. In about a week I think I'll be done with the stock and finally able to do some real ammo testing with the modifications.
Most of the things that I wanted to change are fairly easy, if you have some tools and patience. The front sight is threaded with coarse threads where anschutz are threaded with fine.... this means that an adjustable iris won't fit. But you can take a nail file to the plastic inserts and shave a little off and they will. The rear sight is more problematic. They are threaded 9 mm X 1mm where standard is 9.5 mm x 1mm. 9.5 x 1 mm is not a standard tap size. There is an english equivilant that is close and would work with a little thread lock or teflon tape on the iris. I had a tap made so the fit would be perfect and it is. If you have a router installing a rail would not be too difficult. The adjustable cheek piece and different butt plate are just a bonus because tips were good this winter.
I'm not sure how heavy the trigger goes but it goes lighter than I feel confident setting it at.
I'm not trying to talk you out of a CM-2, I'm just trying to show you what I went through to really set it up for 3p. If your looking at shooting other disciplines you may not want or feel the need to do these things. I think the deal for old sweedes rifle is that. A nice deal. The M Werks scope mount was custom fitted to that rifle. I saw his and called Jeff at M Werks to have him make me one too. (fantasic guy by the way). It remounts with 1/4 MOA accuracy.
Right now I can tell you that I have more in upgrades than I paid for the rifle, but it's now custom fitted and I've still have over a thousand less than what a new Anschutz Supermatch would cost me. I'll be able to see just how well it's now shooting in about a week. Could I have purchased a used Anschutz for less.... really I don't know. I didn't have that much money available and was able to do most of the upgrades over time as my cash allowed. Give Mac Tilton a call and see what he has available in your price range and for the purpose you intend... if you've read through all this and really like the CM-2 Old Swede's deals hard to beat.
Shoot alot of 10's with whatever you choose.
Sean
The only SB competitions I know of that require a 3lb trigger are CMP sporter and some junior competitions, but I'm not that familiar with those competitions. I have my two stage trigger at about 2oz.
If you are looking to get into NRA or USA Shooting precision smallbore competitions, I strongly suggest saving your money for an Anschutz level gun. All, and I repeat, ALL of our juniors who have tried to save money on a gun have ended up spending much more in the end because the sacrifices of the cheaper rifle catch up with them, and they end up with the Anschutz anyways.
It's more the Anschutz barreled action that you want since it can go in a number of stocks. I have found Anschutz standard rifles for $700. I would strongly suggest spending the extra $200 for this rather than the Cm-2. You will get a better trigger which should go to 3 lbs (I've never set an Anschutz trigger to 3lbs personally).
If you're not looking to get serious about smallbore, then the Cm-2 will work just fine. But look at the used equipment market anyways, deals pop up.
If you are looking to get into NRA or USA Shooting precision smallbore competitions, I strongly suggest saving your money for an Anschutz level gun. All, and I repeat, ALL of our juniors who have tried to save money on a gun have ended up spending much more in the end because the sacrifices of the cheaper rifle catch up with them, and they end up with the Anschutz anyways.
It's more the Anschutz barreled action that you want since it can go in a number of stocks. I have found Anschutz standard rifles for $700. I would strongly suggest spending the extra $200 for this rather than the Cm-2. You will get a better trigger which should go to 3 lbs (I've never set an Anschutz trigger to 3lbs personally).
If you're not looking to get serious about smallbore, then the Cm-2 will work just fine. But look at the used equipment market anyways, deals pop up.
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Senator Vitaman
- Posts: 24
- Joined: Tue Jun 23, 2009 10:39 pm
Well, I'm not certain about it. Here are some NRA rules, the first definition lists a trigger restriction, and the other one doesn't. Maybe each one applies to different competitions?The only SB competitions I know of that require a 3lb trigger are CMP sporter and some junior competitions
3.1 The Rifle - The rifle authorized for use in smallbore rifle matches is the .22 caliber rimfire (Unrelated rules removed) The trigger pull
must be capable of lifting 3 pounds.
This doesn't list any trigger limit.3.2 Any Rifle - A rifle authorized for use in smallbore rifle matches
Are they 2 different rules?
Also, how's the Anschutz 1903 basic compare to the CM-2?
The NRA match you enter >>should<< specify which rifle you will be shooting, or which class to enter:
3.1 The Rifle ( a generic rifle match - 3 lb trigger limit)
3.2 Any Rifle (You'll see Olympic guns here)
3.3 Light Rifle (kinda like 3.1 above, but with a 8-1/2lb weight limit and a 2 lb trigger pull)
3.4 Junior Rifle (one thing here is no thumbhole stocks allowed)
I'd sure like to see NRA change the wording of the 3.1 "The Rifle" to "Generic Rifle" or somesuch .... to me it seems clear that these are separate categories/classes of rifles, but way too many organizations try and cram all of 3.1 thru 3.4 into a single rule and can't seem to figure out why they are having troubles (read MANY 4-H programs)
I've attached a quote from HQ Moody, the current NRA National Rifle Manager to one of our 4-H parents here in NM who was wondeing why 4-H program agents cannot seem to get this figured out.
I have some CM-2 Rifles and on one of them I've taken off the stock front sight, fitted a 10" Medesha Sight Extension Tube, and use an air rifle front sight that takes standard 18mm inserts ... the trigger is set to a 2-stage .5lb pull and shoots to the shooter's ability with even decent ammo. A Rule 3.2 Any Rifle.....
I also have to put the plug in as this rifle was purchased for our club with funds from an NRA grant.
3.1 The Rifle ( a generic rifle match - 3 lb trigger limit)
3.2 Any Rifle (You'll see Olympic guns here)
3.3 Light Rifle (kinda like 3.1 above, but with a 8-1/2lb weight limit and a 2 lb trigger pull)
3.4 Junior Rifle (one thing here is no thumbhole stocks allowed)
I'd sure like to see NRA change the wording of the 3.1 "The Rifle" to "Generic Rifle" or somesuch .... to me it seems clear that these are separate categories/classes of rifles, but way too many organizations try and cram all of 3.1 thru 3.4 into a single rule and can't seem to figure out why they are having troubles (read MANY 4-H programs)
I've attached a quote from HQ Moody, the current NRA National Rifle Manager to one of our 4-H parents here in NM who was wondeing why 4-H program agents cannot seem to get this figured out.
Oh .... and back to the point of the thread .....About 95% of the country uses Rule 3.2 Any Rifle. I’ve only seen one request for Rule 3.1. With today’s rifles Rule 3.2 is safe and meets the needs for most tournaments. The problem for the folks who require the use of Rule 3.1 is that they are putting their juniors behind almost everyone in the country.
.......
Keep in mind that you can modify the rules and have you own classes or categories in an Approved NRA Tournament. ......
Let me know if we can be of any help,
HQ Moody
NRA National Rifle Manager
I have some CM-2 Rifles and on one of them I've taken off the stock front sight, fitted a 10" Medesha Sight Extension Tube, and use an air rifle front sight that takes standard 18mm inserts ... the trigger is set to a 2-stage .5lb pull and shoots to the shooter's ability with even decent ammo. A Rule 3.2 Any Rifle.....
I also have to put the plug in as this rifle was purchased for our club with funds from an NRA grant.
Even 99% of the junior matches use rule 3.2. Light rifle matches are the only ones off the top of my head that would require a 3lb trigger in NRA competition.
For the 1903s, by basic, I assume you mean the junior version that has the capability to be a repeater. I suggest putting the extra money into the full on 1903. The junior is designed for juniors.
What smallbore competition are you looking to participate in? We can give you much more specific advice if we know what you're looking to do.
For the 1903s, by basic, I assume you mean the junior version that has the capability to be a repeater. I suggest putting the extra money into the full on 1903. The junior is designed for juniors.
What smallbore competition are you looking to participate in? We can give you much more specific advice if we know what you're looking to do.
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Senator Vitaman
- Posts: 24
- Joined: Tue Jun 23, 2009 10:39 pm
I don't think so. It was the "1903 standard". It's got an adjustable cheekpiece, I don't think it has an adjustable recoil plate though. Can you buy one of those?For the 1903s, by basic, I assume you mean the junior version that has the capability to be a repeater.
3-position at a local and state level.What smallbore competition are you looking to participate in? We can give you much more specific advice if we know what you're looking to do.
If you're looking to get into 3P today, then the 1903 with the adjustable cheek piece will work. However, you will likely find yourself wanting more from the rifle very quickly.
If you can find a used Anschutz Standard rifle (looks just like a 1903) with a 54 action, then you at least have a good barreled action. The 1903 you're looking at has a 64 action which is suspect. When you buy an Anschutz, it's the barreled action you're paying for, not so much the stock. It is unlikely that you will wear it out in your lifetime, so you can transfer it to other stocks.
As for the stock, if you can wait a little to save for at least a 1907 (~$2100), it will be well worth the wait. It has a hook butt plate and a 54 action. When my juniors start looking at buying a rifle, I strongly suggest the 1912 (~$2500). It has the same light action as the 1907 (slightly smaller barrel, same action), but with a free rifle stock. It is lighter than the 1913 by 2 or 3 lbs. It's much easier to add weight as needed than to take it off.
Another option is to hop on ebay and other gun forums and see what comes up. We bought an aluminum stock off ebay for $1100 and a 54 action with sights from a local guy for $600. Bam, aluminum stock rifle for $1700. You'll have to have a little luck and some patience to do this, but it will pay off immediately.
In the meantime, talk with you local gun club and the match regulars. The regulars may have something they don't use anymore, and someone looking to get into the sport is just the motivation they need to part with it. Also, the gun club may let you use some of the junior guns they have. My club will let you use one of our junior guns for our matches if you let us know ahead of time. However, you won't get much access to it for practice.
Good Luck!
If you can find a used Anschutz Standard rifle (looks just like a 1903) with a 54 action, then you at least have a good barreled action. The 1903 you're looking at has a 64 action which is suspect. When you buy an Anschutz, it's the barreled action you're paying for, not so much the stock. It is unlikely that you will wear it out in your lifetime, so you can transfer it to other stocks.
As for the stock, if you can wait a little to save for at least a 1907 (~$2100), it will be well worth the wait. It has a hook butt plate and a 54 action. When my juniors start looking at buying a rifle, I strongly suggest the 1912 (~$2500). It has the same light action as the 1907 (slightly smaller barrel, same action), but with a free rifle stock. It is lighter than the 1913 by 2 or 3 lbs. It's much easier to add weight as needed than to take it off.
Another option is to hop on ebay and other gun forums and see what comes up. We bought an aluminum stock off ebay for $1100 and a 54 action with sights from a local guy for $600. Bam, aluminum stock rifle for $1700. You'll have to have a little luck and some patience to do this, but it will pay off immediately.
In the meantime, talk with you local gun club and the match regulars. The regulars may have something they don't use anymore, and someone looking to get into the sport is just the motivation they need to part with it. Also, the gun club may let you use some of the junior guns they have. My club will let you use one of our junior guns for our matches if you let us know ahead of time. However, you won't get much access to it for practice.
Good Luck!
I'm one of the CM-2 cheerleaders on Rimfirecentral. Last July I bought a brand new Anschutz 1907 and have struggled with it and within the last month have gone back to my CM-2. On Wednesday I borescoped both guns and the CM-2 bore is noticeably better than the Anschutz. The CM-2 barrel looks almost like a Lilja with no visible scratches or flaws of any kind, just smooth, uniform lands and grooves. The Anschutz barrel looks like it was made with a "That's good enough." mentality. It shows faint lines of machining chatter marks perpindicular to the bore and a porous look on the metal similar to what you would see from etching. The 1907 has the much better stock and is very comfortable to shoot and the trigger is a dream, but the rifle has proved to be inconsistent at the range.
The last time I shot the CM-2 in practice before getting the Annie I cleaned 5 out of 6 A23-5's. I have never done so with the 1907.
In an effort to improve the CM-2 I have installed a Master Class adjustable cheekpiece and a MEC alloy buttplate. I removed the rail and replaced it with one from Champchoice so I can use a handstop (also from champchoice). I ordered a set of clear plastic inserts for the front globe and used a fingernail file to get them to fit in the globe and it only takes a minute or so to get them to fit. I removed the front sight and fitted an .812 sight extension clamp using a cylinder hone in hand drill to use a sight extension tube but have reverted back to the original front sight and personally prefer the 2.8 plastic insert over the 3.0 but that is a personal preference.
The trigger on my CM-2 was tested last year and was 18-20 ounces. I adjusted the first stage completely out of the trigger and put some STP oil treatment on the contact point between the trigger and sear and it feels much better. With the modifications on the CM-2 I am quite happy with it.
I won't shoot the Anschutz again until I rebarrel it. For pictures go to http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/sh ... p?t=287111
The last time I shot the CM-2 in practice before getting the Annie I cleaned 5 out of 6 A23-5's. I have never done so with the 1907.
In an effort to improve the CM-2 I have installed a Master Class adjustable cheekpiece and a MEC alloy buttplate. I removed the rail and replaced it with one from Champchoice so I can use a handstop (also from champchoice). I ordered a set of clear plastic inserts for the front globe and used a fingernail file to get them to fit in the globe and it only takes a minute or so to get them to fit. I removed the front sight and fitted an .812 sight extension clamp using a cylinder hone in hand drill to use a sight extension tube but have reverted back to the original front sight and personally prefer the 2.8 plastic insert over the 3.0 but that is a personal preference.
The trigger on my CM-2 was tested last year and was 18-20 ounces. I adjusted the first stage completely out of the trigger and put some STP oil treatment on the contact point between the trigger and sear and it feels much better. With the modifications on the CM-2 I am quite happy with it.
I won't shoot the Anschutz again until I rebarrel it. For pictures go to http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/sh ... p?t=287111
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Senator Vitaman
- Posts: 24
- Joined: Tue Jun 23, 2009 10:39 pm
Well, I'm considering building an anschutz. Unfortunantly, right now even the stock is more money than I have. Are there any alternatives? Would it be more economical to build a feinwerkbau?.
What about it's better? Also, how big is each one? I'm kind of tall and don't want the stock to be too small.The 1907 has the much better stock
The club's smallbore rifles aren't the best. Most of the target rifles are remington 540s.Also, the gun club may let you use some of the junior guns they have. My club will let you use one of our junior guns for our matches if you let us know ahead of time. However, you won't get much access to it for practice.
How suspect is it? On the 50-foot smallbore target (the one sized about the same as the 10 meter target) how well can these usually score?has a 64 action which is suspect.
The 1907 stock comes with all the upgrades you would be looking to add. That's what the extra money is for.
The 64 action lags behind the 54 action in reliability, accuracy, and its bolt is a bit of a pain to disassemble and clean. Until you get to probably the Expert class in prone, you likely won't notice a difference in accuracy.
Ya, you'll probably want to skip on the 540's. My club just sold a dozen of those to make room in our safe and in the bank for some 1903s.
I suppose I should elaborate on why I am not a fan of anything not Anschutz. I coach kids such that they can become the best they can. That's why I don't suggest buying an intermediate rifle. An intermediate rifle can take you to Master class, but why handicap yourself. I understand the financial issue that can surround buying an Anschutz (or Feinwerkbau or Walther).
In response to Charlotte, it is likely that you can't do as well with the 1907 because it's not the CM-2 you've been shooting the last number of years. I tell my juniors when they get a rifle with the amount of adjustments on a 1907 or free rifle that it will likely take them 3-6 months to get everything just right.
I know this threat more surrounded buying an economical rifle, but there have been some comments suggesting that the CM-2 might be superior to Anschutz rifles. I would like to note that nearly ALL the rifles in the finals of the past Olympics were Anschutz, Feinwerbau, or Walther, and I don't think any were CM-2s.
The 64 action lags behind the 54 action in reliability, accuracy, and its bolt is a bit of a pain to disassemble and clean. Until you get to probably the Expert class in prone, you likely won't notice a difference in accuracy.
Ya, you'll probably want to skip on the 540's. My club just sold a dozen of those to make room in our safe and in the bank for some 1903s.
I suppose I should elaborate on why I am not a fan of anything not Anschutz. I coach kids such that they can become the best they can. That's why I don't suggest buying an intermediate rifle. An intermediate rifle can take you to Master class, but why handicap yourself. I understand the financial issue that can surround buying an Anschutz (or Feinwerkbau or Walther).
In response to Charlotte, it is likely that you can't do as well with the 1907 because it's not the CM-2 you've been shooting the last number of years. I tell my juniors when they get a rifle with the amount of adjustments on a 1907 or free rifle that it will likely take them 3-6 months to get everything just right.
I know this threat more surrounded buying an economical rifle, but there have been some comments suggesting that the CM-2 might be superior to Anschutz rifles. I would like to note that nearly ALL the rifles in the finals of the past Olympics were Anschutz, Feinwerbau, or Walther, and I don't think any were CM-2s.
I have a CM-2 and I also have a 1907 that I bought new last year and I still like my CM-2 the best. I have done some upgrades to my CM-2 to make it more comfortable. I installed a Masterclass adjustable cheekpiece and covered the cheekpiece with tennis overgrip. I have an MEC alloy buttplate and boy is it an improvement! I also removed the rail and installed a rail from Champchoice that will take a handstop and finally I got plastic inserts for the front globe which required minor fitting and all it took was a fingernail file and a couple of minutes for each insert. I personally like the 2.8. I also got a sight extension tube and clamp from Champchoice. The clamp was .812 and had to be opened up with a $16 cylinder hone from NAPA.
As for the trigger there is a torsion spring that I am replacing with one I made which will substantially reduce the trigger pull weight.
As for the trigger there is a torsion spring that I am replacing with one I made which will substantially reduce the trigger pull weight.
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Senator Vitaman
- Posts: 24
- Joined: Tue Jun 23, 2009 10:39 pm
Before I started shooting the 1907 I was cleaning 5 out of 6 A-23-5's in practice using SK Std Plus before doing the modifications to the gun and stock and I was Sharpshooter classification. I've only been back with the CM-2 for a month or so, so give me another month to get back into the groove with it and I'll post my scores in an upcoming conventional 3200.
Masterclass stocks will install the cheekpiece for about $165 but that price may not be current. DIY and just the cost of the hardware which was $95 I think. The buttplate was $190, the inserts were $20, the rail cost $14 and that price is also an old one, but not far off. The extension tube and clamp were $27 each and I use an Anschutz front globe on the tube and an Anschutz rear sight with a Gehman Adjustable Iris when the mood strikes me, but currently I'm happy with the Russian rear sight.
I think I probably just don't like the 1907 platform and am thinking about getting a 2013 in a 2313 stock. A Bleiker rifle would be nice, but unless I win the lottery or inherit some money that probably won't happen. In the mean time I'm going to keep shooting the CM-2 and am considering putting the 1907 0n the auction block.
Masterclass stocks will install the cheekpiece for about $165 but that price may not be current. DIY and just the cost of the hardware which was $95 I think. The buttplate was $190, the inserts were $20, the rail cost $14 and that price is also an old one, but not far off. The extension tube and clamp were $27 each and I use an Anschutz front globe on the tube and an Anschutz rear sight with a Gehman Adjustable Iris when the mood strikes me, but currently I'm happy with the Russian rear sight.
I think I probably just don't like the 1907 platform and am thinking about getting a 2013 in a 2313 stock. A Bleiker rifle would be nice, but unless I win the lottery or inherit some money that probably won't happen. In the mean time I'm going to keep shooting the CM-2 and am considering putting the 1907 0n the auction block.
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Guest
Back in the 50's when I was a junior, rifles were required to have a 3 lb trigger pull. Sometime in the 60's I believe NRA came up with the any rifle, probably because of the international use of the Anshutz with its light trigger. Anyhow I don't know why NRA still has the 3.1 Rifle of 3 lbs listed as all matches I am aware of are for any rifle. If one were to have a match with the rifle 3 lb you would chase all the Anshutz competitors away. Anyhow the match sponsor is to publish a program listing the rifle to be used. I can only imaging someone specifying the 3 lb trigger if they wanted to limit their match to older US rifles such as 37, 40 or 52. Rich