As mentioned, hard to go wrong with the Pardini. The ergonomics of it seem to fit most folks very well, and the trigger is adjustable enough, that you can make it feel just about however you want.
I stepped through the same pistols as you, in my brief bullseye career. Exceptions being brief stints with a Benelli MP95 and Hammerli 280. I recommend the Benelli or Pardini, based on how much you want to spend. Seems you're fine with the higher expense, so go with the Pardini.
Compared to what you've shot so far, IMO, the Benelli and Pardini are just plain easier to shoot good scores with. I think the combo of raked grip and low barrel to trigger arrangement are the key reasons. Rapid fire is notably easier.
Not sure if you're interested in a used gun, but the Benelli's come up frequently on GunBroker. As a matter of fact, there's one out there right now...
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewIt ... =118812987
This gun, and a Rink/Nill grip will get you going for about 1/2 of a new Pardini. Used Pardini's, don't hold your breath... I looked for one for quite a while, and ended up spending a little more than I thought I should have when I did finally find one. You might get lucky, though.
Both guns are popular, and have a decent resale, so at least you won't lose your shirt if you buy, and find it's not right for you.
Oh, and my thoughts on Pardini versus Benelli (MP95, mind you...). At the latest price for the Pardini, I honestly don't think the Pardini is worth $1,000 more. Less than a year ago, the difference was closer to $500, and at that, I'd give the nod to the Pardini. In my experience with the two, bench-rested accuracy was equal. And in actual shooting, I can't say that my scores are greatly improved with the Pardini. I just wanted to try everything out there, and sice I always "bought smart", I was able to do so without ever really losing any money.
Anyhow, Merry Christmas! And best of luck with your purchase.
Pardini SP .22 LR - Recommendations and Experiances Wanted
Moderators: pilkguns, m1963, Isabel1130
Pardini SP New
Very happy with mine. Very reliable.
No problems with Lapua Super Club or RWS Club. I can go for months before having to clean it. Lapua Club(SK Jagd- und Sportmunitions GmbH in Germany) in 500rds tins is much dirtier than regular Lapua, and have to clean it more often. Tried CCI SV and the OAL was too much trouble in my mags.
Broke one firing pin and it was easy to get spares. Take down is easy, just loosen one socket head cap screw with the allen keys supplied. Screw stays in barrel weight/shroud. Can't ask for an easier take- down for cleaning. No need to re-zeroing after reassembly.
Good compromise on weight balance for me between slow-fire and rapid-fire balance . I only use the iron sights and Varga shooting glasses with prescription lens and iris. Don't see a need for dot or scopes. No pun intended. :)
No problems with Lapua Super Club or RWS Club. I can go for months before having to clean it. Lapua Club(SK Jagd- und Sportmunitions GmbH in Germany) in 500rds tins is much dirtier than regular Lapua, and have to clean it more often. Tried CCI SV and the OAL was too much trouble in my mags.
Broke one firing pin and it was easy to get spares. Take down is easy, just loosen one socket head cap screw with the allen keys supplied. Screw stays in barrel weight/shroud. Can't ask for an easier take- down for cleaning. No need to re-zeroing after reassembly.
Good compromise on weight balance for me between slow-fire and rapid-fire balance . I only use the iron sights and Varga shooting glasses with prescription lens and iris. Don't see a need for dot or scopes. No pun intended. :)
Re: Pardini SP New
I've read about the Benelli and the Hammerli pistols and many people like them very much but they also tend to have a slight higher preference to the Pardini while some like the Hammerli 208s. Seems to be a common thread among folks.MSC wrote:I stepped through the same pistols as you, in my brief bullseye career. Exceptions being brief stints with a Benelli MP95 and Hammerli 280. I recommend the Benelli or Pardini, based on how much you want to spend. Seems you're fine with the higher expense, so go with the Pardini.
That Benelli auction is finished. I'm actually looking towards a Like New Pardini SP for $1,500 USD and I've seen another used one for $1,400 USD. The list price at Larry's Guns here in Maine US is $1,846 USD so getting a few hundred off for a Like New model sounds like a good compromise. When you consider that the S&W Model 41 here is $1,232 USD as the MSRP price paying a few hundred more for a Pardini doesn't seem like a long stretch.
I'm glad to hear that this gun is reliable. I haven't seen any issues with reliability on these guns from any of the posts that I have read about them and I'm glad to hear that. Easy take down is always a bonus and usually shows good engineering, glad to hear that also.diopter wrote:Very happy with mine. Very reliable.
No problems with Lapua Super Club or RWS Club. I can go for months before having to clean it. Lapua Club(SK Jagd- und Sportmunitions GmbH in Germany) in 500rds tins is much dirtier than regular Lapua, and have to clean it more often. Tried CCI SV and the OAL was too much trouble in my mags.
Broke one firing pin and it was easy to get spares. Take down is easy, just loosen one socket head cap screw with the allen keys supplied. Screw stays in barrel weight/shroud. Can't ask for an easier take- down for cleaning. No need to re-zeroing after reassembly.
Good compromise on weight balance for me between slow-fire and rapid-fire balance . I only use the iron sights and Varga shooting glasses with prescription lens and iris. Don't see a need for dot or scopes. No pun intended. :)
I'm a little upset about the CCI Standard-Velocity ammo being an issue in this pistol since that is what I was planning on using as my primary training ammo since the prices are very good at ~$5 per 100. Here in the US the costs of some of the important European ammo is quite expensive compared to the locally produced ammo at $10-$20 per 50.
The CCI brand seems to be high quality but longer OAL does cause problems. As I've mentioned earlier in the thread the longer OAL in the CCI Mini-Mag ammo is requiring me to send my Volquartsen rifle back to have the chamber extended since that's the ammo that I use the most for practice due to price, accuracy, and availability.
All the ammo I'm using in my Pardini SP is under $4.50 Canadian/box 50.(if bought by 5000 case.)
Also use Eley Practice. I keep the more expensive ammo for 50m
Text from their website:
http://www.hirschprecision.com/
HOME of Hirsch Precision
.22 Ammunition
Lapua has a new line of .22 ammunition which uses new manufacturing technology to produce the world’s most accurate match ammunition. World class biathlon competitors have used Lapua Polar Biathlon for years and BR and Smallbore shooters win matches with Standard Club, Super Club, Master and Midas.
All pricing is in Canadian Dollars
100 500 5000
Standard Club N/A $ 45.00 $ 410.00 (Comes in 500rd tins, accurate but dirty)
Hollow Point $ 16.00 $ 76.00 $ 660.00
Maser M $ 18.00 $ 80.00 $ 760.00
Master L $ 18.00 $ 80.00 $ 760.00
Midas M $ 30.00 $ 140.00 $ 1360.00
Midas L $ 30.00 $ 140.00 $ 1360.00
Speed Ace $ 18.00 $ 80.00 $ 750.00
Polar Biathlon $ 19.00 $ 90.00 $ 850.00
Pistol King $ 17.00 $ 78.00 $ 750.00
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And another Canadian ammo source:
http://www.targetshootingproducts.com/s ... 24937be9ad
Also use Eley Practice. I keep the more expensive ammo for 50m
Text from their website:
http://www.hirschprecision.com/
HOME of Hirsch Precision
.22 Ammunition
Lapua has a new line of .22 ammunition which uses new manufacturing technology to produce the world’s most accurate match ammunition. World class biathlon competitors have used Lapua Polar Biathlon for years and BR and Smallbore shooters win matches with Standard Club, Super Club, Master and Midas.
All pricing is in Canadian Dollars
100 500 5000
Standard Club N/A $ 45.00 $ 410.00 (Comes in 500rd tins, accurate but dirty)
Hollow Point $ 16.00 $ 76.00 $ 660.00
Maser M $ 18.00 $ 80.00 $ 760.00
Master L $ 18.00 $ 80.00 $ 760.00
Midas M $ 30.00 $ 140.00 $ 1360.00
Midas L $ 30.00 $ 140.00 $ 1360.00
Speed Ace $ 18.00 $ 80.00 $ 750.00
Polar Biathlon $ 19.00 $ 90.00 $ 850.00
Pistol King $ 17.00 $ 78.00 $ 750.00
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And another Canadian ammo source:
http://www.targetshootingproducts.com/s ... 24937be9ad
Sir,
I have a M41, 2 Marvels, a Pardini and a SP20. I have shot equal scores (890) with all using a dot. I most often use a Marvel so all 3 matches in the 2700 use similar guns (I use a 1911 45 for CF and 45). This seems to give me my highest overall scores. I would not feel at a disadvantage with any of them though. All have proven about the same reliability wise. All will shoot extremely accurately. More accurately than all but maybe 3 or 4 shooters could tell. I personally like the international grip, magazine forward style and have had great results with the Pardini. Handle the pistols and get the one you like/want. You won't go wrong. They will all take you as far as you can go. I think you'll be happier and more successful shooting the one you want. Hope to see you at a match someday.
Kevin Walker
GySgt, USMC Reserve Pistol Team
I have a M41, 2 Marvels, a Pardini and a SP20. I have shot equal scores (890) with all using a dot. I most often use a Marvel so all 3 matches in the 2700 use similar guns (I use a 1911 45 for CF and 45). This seems to give me my highest overall scores. I would not feel at a disadvantage with any of them though. All have proven about the same reliability wise. All will shoot extremely accurately. More accurately than all but maybe 3 or 4 shooters could tell. I personally like the international grip, magazine forward style and have had great results with the Pardini. Handle the pistols and get the one you like/want. You won't go wrong. They will all take you as far as you can go. I think you'll be happier and more successful shooting the one you want. Hope to see you at a match someday.
Kevin Walker
GySgt, USMC Reserve Pistol Team
-
edlongrange
- Posts: 6
- Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 11:03 pm
Hi JakFrost:
Saturday 12/27/2209 has passed…so what was your decision? Did you get the paperwork going on a Pardini? If so, exactly which one – SP, SP RF, SP1, SP1 RF?
IF you are still considering such a “standard pistol”, have you also considered:
Match Gun MG2 (4 models at http://www.matchguns.com/prodotti.asp) ?
Morini CM 22 (2 models at http://www.morini.ch/) ?
Walther GSP Expert (4 grip variants at http://www.carl-walther.info/dev2/index ... roduct=163) ? [They even have a rifle conversion kit for this model.]
Walther SPP (4 grip variants at http://www.carl-walther.info/dev2/index ... roduct=481) ?
These are all CURRENT models and are very similar to the Pardini SP – AND, most importantly (in my estimation), adjustable to fit the shooter. Picatinny rails are also available for each from the importers.
I don’t know how anyone would judge how well such a pistol would be for them without an extended “trial” period. The grips vary from S to XL, the base weight may vary (such as the ALU Morini vs steel), weights can be added in varying amounts, and the trigger can be adjusted in varying ways. If you pick up and shoot a Pardini and it feels “good”, you are feeling the factory setup or what another shooter has configured. If it doesn’t feel just right, what adjustment(s) are available to make it feel right (from the factory)?
Bottom line, I’d look for adjustability. Good shooting!
Saturday 12/27/2209 has passed…so what was your decision? Did you get the paperwork going on a Pardini? If so, exactly which one – SP, SP RF, SP1, SP1 RF?
IF you are still considering such a “standard pistol”, have you also considered:
Match Gun MG2 (4 models at http://www.matchguns.com/prodotti.asp) ?
Morini CM 22 (2 models at http://www.morini.ch/) ?
Walther GSP Expert (4 grip variants at http://www.carl-walther.info/dev2/index ... roduct=163) ? [They even have a rifle conversion kit for this model.]
Walther SPP (4 grip variants at http://www.carl-walther.info/dev2/index ... roduct=481) ?
These are all CURRENT models and are very similar to the Pardini SP – AND, most importantly (in my estimation), adjustable to fit the shooter. Picatinny rails are also available for each from the importers.
I don’t know how anyone would judge how well such a pistol would be for them without an extended “trial” period. The grips vary from S to XL, the base weight may vary (such as the ALU Morini vs steel), weights can be added in varying amounts, and the trigger can be adjusted in varying ways. If you pick up and shoot a Pardini and it feels “good”, you are feeling the factory setup or what another shooter has configured. If it doesn’t feel just right, what adjustment(s) are available to make it feel right (from the factory)?
Bottom line, I’d look for adjustability. Good shooting!
I started the paperwork and put a deposit down on a 1-year used Pardini SP. I looked briefly into the SP1 model with the electronic trigger and spoke to Larry of Larry's Guns who recommended against the SP1 trigger since it takes a lot of getting used to due to it's inherent sensitivity.edlongrange wrote:Saturday 12/27/2209 has passed…so what was your decision? Did you get the paperwork going on a Pardini? If so, exactly which one – SP, SP RF, SP1, SP1 RF?
IF you are still considering such a “standard pistol”, have you also considered:
Match Gun MG2 (4 models at http://www.matchguns.com/prodotti.asp) ?
Morini CM 22 (2 models at http://www.morini.ch/) ?
I read about the Morini CM22 model and it was very highly recommended and quite well liked but I have come across some posts where folks have mentioned that they tried both and a few said that they preferred the Pardini.
I read about the Matchguns MG2 model but a few folks mentioned the issues they had with their pistols and also the number of changes that the factory has been making to this model of the gun to get it just right. One person mentioned that the company is using its current customers are beta tests to get all the kinks out of the design.
I did not come across much information about the Walthers except for a few people who mentioned that the other makes that I mentioned above were a bit more preferred by them. I didn't pay too much attention to the models that they mentioned specifically so I kind of went ahead and ignored all the Walthers because I was working on imperfect information from source of unknown credibility.
Of course all of these things I read are opinions of others and there is always bias in the information, however if enough people mention the same thing over and over again it becomes a bit more credible. Of course nothing is absolutely trustworthy and one cannot always follow the popular opinion on all decisions but I am in a situation where I have no choice because I have absolutely no way of trying or seeing any of these guns here where I live and shoot.
I would absolutely love to go to a range and meet with folks who all have these guns and who'll let me try them out to figure out what I like the best but that is quite impossible so I had to make a decision based on a general consensus that formed from reading other people's opinions.
Now I have a few month wait until the paperwork that I filed gets approved. I am now waiting for that to happen before I ask for the pistol to be shipped to my FFL to try it out.
I'm out here on a limb and I'm blindfolded on this decision but I'm hoping that the leap that I have made for this pistol will land me in a nice soft spot where I'll be comfortable. The research that I have done and the opinions that I have read lead me to believe that this will be the case.
Jack I guess you have already made a choice. A lot of people gave you some great info. Looking at your respones I don't think what they were saying hit home. So I'll say a little something since I am looking for my first .22 pistol as well.
My brother is a bulleyes shooter and I tried his S&W 41. I didn't like it. Maybe I would have done better with a red dot scope on it but I couldn't shoot it well. I loved his high standard but it weighs a lot, is prone to frame cracking, and magazines are hard to find. So I ruled both of those out. A Ruger just didn't seem good enough and when I held one at a gun show it didn't feel right. The 22/45 was okay but I don't like plastic. The Buckmark felt better but nobody works on them. So they were out.
I figured I needed one of those Euro guns. They had to be better considering the price. Finally I got a chance to shoot the AW93 and the Moroni. Boy am I glad I didn't pony up the bucks without shooting one first. I could not get used to the extreme rake of the grip. I had a heck of a time finding the red dot to put on the target. If you think a 1911 type 45 feels right I don't think you will like them. So far the gun I have liked the best is a IZH 35M but they don't make them anymore. I wish I knew what else was close. When I picked it up I knew it was right, especially the sights. Even though the target was only 15 yards it felt good picking up a strange gun and putting 10 rounds in a row into the 10 ring.
Now the point of all of this is that if I had gone out and bought a gun instead of waiting untill I had a chance to shoot some of them I would have made a huge mistake. I want to shot the Benelli and I want to shot a Marvel conversion. I'd like them to make another run of 35M's. I have learned the hard way that you have to shoot a gun to decide what you like. Given what you have paid for your other guns you can afford to travel to some local ranges. If you ask nicely most guys will let you try a few rounds. I know it feels weird to ask but get over it. It really is better if you decide on what type of matches you are going to shoot. What is best for one is not best for another. If there was any such thing as the best .22 pistol then there would be only one brand/model. There are many because people are different and shoot different matches.
Russ
My brother is a bulleyes shooter and I tried his S&W 41. I didn't like it. Maybe I would have done better with a red dot scope on it but I couldn't shoot it well. I loved his high standard but it weighs a lot, is prone to frame cracking, and magazines are hard to find. So I ruled both of those out. A Ruger just didn't seem good enough and when I held one at a gun show it didn't feel right. The 22/45 was okay but I don't like plastic. The Buckmark felt better but nobody works on them. So they were out.
I figured I needed one of those Euro guns. They had to be better considering the price. Finally I got a chance to shoot the AW93 and the Moroni. Boy am I glad I didn't pony up the bucks without shooting one first. I could not get used to the extreme rake of the grip. I had a heck of a time finding the red dot to put on the target. If you think a 1911 type 45 feels right I don't think you will like them. So far the gun I have liked the best is a IZH 35M but they don't make them anymore. I wish I knew what else was close. When I picked it up I knew it was right, especially the sights. Even though the target was only 15 yards it felt good picking up a strange gun and putting 10 rounds in a row into the 10 ring.
Now the point of all of this is that if I had gone out and bought a gun instead of waiting untill I had a chance to shoot some of them I would have made a huge mistake. I want to shot the Benelli and I want to shot a Marvel conversion. I'd like them to make another run of 35M's. I have learned the hard way that you have to shoot a gun to decide what you like. Given what you have paid for your other guns you can afford to travel to some local ranges. If you ask nicely most guys will let you try a few rounds. I know it feels weird to ask but get over it. It really is better if you decide on what type of matches you are going to shoot. What is best for one is not best for another. If there was any such thing as the best .22 pistol then there would be only one brand/model. There are many because people are different and shoot different matches.
Russ
Almost Have It / Ammo Selection
I almost have the pistol. I filed the paperwork and it was completed so it was shipped to my FFL and it should be there already. I'll probably see it this week when I stop by the range. I'll still have to wait for the UltraDot Match scope that I purchased and paid for since they ran out of scopes in stock.
Now I'm at the process of purchasing various ammo for the pistol to test it and determine which one works the best with it at the lowest price. I've taken heed from other people's experiences with breaking their pistols by using high-velocity ammo so I'm sticking with standard-velocity for this pistol and I'll leave the other ammo for my nice rifle. (It came back from Volquartsen with an enlarged chamber so now I'm testing it to see if it ejects properly after it gets dirty.)
Just for reference I use the CCI Mini-mag High-Velocity Copper Plated .22 LR ammo for my rifle but this ammo has longer Overall Length (OAL) so it had problems with my tight chamber on the rifle (it's been enlarged now). I found that rifle wise this CCI ammo is much more accurate and more important more reliable than the other cheaper alternatives such as the equivalent Federal HV or Winchester whitebox. However, the longer OAL also prevents this ammo from being used reliably in this Pardini and because it is high-velocity it would damage the receiver. Hence why I'm not using it in the new pistol.
I've looked at the ammo choices and some of the target and match ammo loads are way too expensive in my opinion so I'm going to stick to entry level and mid-level ammo since I'm going to be doing most of my shooting at an in-door range with a standard 50-foot (17-yard) distance instead of the usual 25m (27-yard) or 50m (54-yard). I don't think that paying as much as USD $8-16 per box of 50 bullets is going to give me any benefits for my usage for starting to do target practice and even local range matches over USD $2-5 per box. (If you know that there is concrete evidence with test fire comparisons that there is a difference between the $4 and $16 box of ammo at 17-yards then I would love to see a link to the article.)
I just placed two orders for 200-rounds of each of these ammo types listed below, except for the Remington which was out-of-stock, so that I can test the ammo for reliability and also for accuracy.
I also purchased the CCI Standard-Velocity ammo even though it has a longer OAL so that I can test to see if it actually does cause problems in my magazines and pistol. If it doesn't work reliably and accurately I'll use it for my rifle.
When I was making the links to the ammo I just noticed that Eley Sport is the same as Eley Target except that the later is almost twice as expensive because of the "new" box design. I have to keep this in mind to buy the older looking box next time if this ammo does well.
CCI
CCI Ammunition 22 LR 40 grain - 0032 - 100/box - $5.57 (0.0557 per bullet)
Eley
Eley Sport Ammunition 22 Long Rifle 40 Grain Lead Round Nose Box of 50 - $2.89 (0.0578 per bullet)
Eley Target Ammunition 22 Long Rifle 40 Grain Lead Round Nose Box of 50 - $4.99 (0.0998 per bullet)
Please note Sport is branded as Target in the USA.
Remington
Remington .22 LR 40gr Standard Velocity Target RN - RT6100 - 50/box - $4.99 (0.0998 per bullet)
Winchester
Winchester 22 Long Rifle 40 gr. Super-X® Lead Round Nose - Standard Velocity - XT22LR 50/box - $2.76 (0.0552 per bullet)
Now I'm at the process of purchasing various ammo for the pistol to test it and determine which one works the best with it at the lowest price. I've taken heed from other people's experiences with breaking their pistols by using high-velocity ammo so I'm sticking with standard-velocity for this pistol and I'll leave the other ammo for my nice rifle. (It came back from Volquartsen with an enlarged chamber so now I'm testing it to see if it ejects properly after it gets dirty.)
Just for reference I use the CCI Mini-mag High-Velocity Copper Plated .22 LR ammo for my rifle but this ammo has longer Overall Length (OAL) so it had problems with my tight chamber on the rifle (it's been enlarged now). I found that rifle wise this CCI ammo is much more accurate and more important more reliable than the other cheaper alternatives such as the equivalent Federal HV or Winchester whitebox. However, the longer OAL also prevents this ammo from being used reliably in this Pardini and because it is high-velocity it would damage the receiver. Hence why I'm not using it in the new pistol.
I've looked at the ammo choices and some of the target and match ammo loads are way too expensive in my opinion so I'm going to stick to entry level and mid-level ammo since I'm going to be doing most of my shooting at an in-door range with a standard 50-foot (17-yard) distance instead of the usual 25m (27-yard) or 50m (54-yard). I don't think that paying as much as USD $8-16 per box of 50 bullets is going to give me any benefits for my usage for starting to do target practice and even local range matches over USD $2-5 per box. (If you know that there is concrete evidence with test fire comparisons that there is a difference between the $4 and $16 box of ammo at 17-yards then I would love to see a link to the article.)
I just placed two orders for 200-rounds of each of these ammo types listed below, except for the Remington which was out-of-stock, so that I can test the ammo for reliability and also for accuracy.
I also purchased the CCI Standard-Velocity ammo even though it has a longer OAL so that I can test to see if it actually does cause problems in my magazines and pistol. If it doesn't work reliably and accurately I'll use it for my rifle.
When I was making the links to the ammo I just noticed that Eley Sport is the same as Eley Target except that the later is almost twice as expensive because of the "new" box design. I have to keep this in mind to buy the older looking box next time if this ammo does well.
CCI
CCI Ammunition 22 LR 40 grain - 0032 - 100/box - $5.57 (0.0557 per bullet)
Eley
Eley Sport Ammunition 22 Long Rifle 40 Grain Lead Round Nose Box of 50 - $2.89 (0.0578 per bullet)
Eley Target Ammunition 22 Long Rifle 40 Grain Lead Round Nose Box of 50 - $4.99 (0.0998 per bullet)
Please note Sport is branded as Target in the USA.
Remington
Remington .22 LR 40gr Standard Velocity Target RN - RT6100 - 50/box - $4.99 (0.0998 per bullet)
Winchester
Winchester 22 Long Rifle 40 gr. Super-X® Lead Round Nose - Standard Velocity - XT22LR 50/box - $2.76 (0.0552 per bullet)
-
toughmandave
- Posts: 15
- Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2009 9:21 pm
- Location: The Villages, Florida
JakFrost - Wow, I thought I was a perfectionist but you take the cake my man. I love your thought pattern and your drive towards a perfection that you continue to strive for. As for your choice, I think you made an excellent one. I used to shoot competitively bulls eye 22 (Ruger) and a 45 (S&W). I have been out of it for years. However, recently I am back in the saddle again. This time USPSA (40 cal Glock) and here where I live we have a private 10 meter .177 cal air pellet range. Everyone is 50 yrs + but we have about 50 members in our club. Most shoot a Baikal IZH 46M and a few FWB's. So I have started a new rage - A Pardini K60. Just a pellet gun, but I feel in love with it over my Baikal. I too have an Ultra Dot Match Dot on order from Larryh's Guns. They are supposed to be coming in this week. The Villages, The Villages, FL actually is where I live, is providing 50% funding to a new pistol range which will be trap shooting and 22 cal. Looking forward to that in a few months. So what will I buy? Another Pardini.........I have to say the trigger pull on my K60 is awesome. It just feels right. I am just in the process of re-assembling it from a reseal and I am having all the aluminum parts anodized in purple, yes purple. I'm not a life long bulls eye pro as many of target talk readers are, but I feel quite capable in certain competitive shooting matches and fairly knowledgeable in the sport, but I certainly can say I love the feel of the Pardini. Gunbroker.com is a great place to find some deals but choice gun like the ones we are talking about are really scarce. Sounds like you did very very well and made a great choice. I sure would be a buyer..... Just wanted to give you a heads up. dave
I looked at RWS Target Pistol but it is not available from my favorite online distributors, Midwayusa.com and Natchezss.com, only the target rifle is available and it is one of the more expensive ones out there with nearly 14-cents per round.tenex wrote:Don Nygord strongly recommended RWS Target as a good ammo for the Pardini. Mine has had maybe 2 or 3 failures in 10,000 rounds or so. I'm not that happy about the new RWS prices, I may try some Aguila to shoot. Steve.
RWS Target Rifle Ammunition 22 Long Rifle 40 Grain Box of 50 - $6.99 (0.1398 per round)
This Aquila ammo is also a possible alternative.
Aguila Match Pistol Ammunition 22 Long Rifle 40 Grain Lead Round Nose Box of 50 - $3.79 (0.0758 per round)
I shot the pistol today.
I shot the pistol today at the range and it is great, as good and accurate as I have hoped.
I will take pictures of it this Saturday to show it off to everyone so stay tuned.
Fit and Finish
The quality and fit of the pistol are absolutely great and the pistol is built very solid. The slide and receiver are very well mated and very tight but move as smooth as butter without any oil. The finish on the pistol is great and looks practically like new except under the bottom of the magazine well that is scratched up and the paint has flaked off. (We found out the reason why the paint is missing only there.)
Weight and Balance
The whole pistol is very large, much larger in size than 1911 .45 ACP pistol, and almost the size of a Magnum Research Desert Eagle .50AE but a shorter barrel. However the pistol is very light for it's size, like picking up a polymer frame Glock pistol, due to the light aluminum alloy used in the frame. Only the barrel and the front barrel shroud seem to be made of the heavier steel and most of the weight is balanced towards the front of the barrel. The balance can be adjusted with the removal of the barrel weights or with the addition of a Red Dot scope that I plan to put on this pistol shortly.
Ammunition
Today I tested 100-rounds of CCI Standard-Velocity 40gr Lead Round Nose .22 LR #0032 ammunition in it and it has performed flawlessly through the pistol without a single malfunction. This ammo has a very long OAL (Over All Length) that some people have mentioned causes problems for this Pardini SP pistol and other .22 LR pistols but I had no problems at all with this ammo. I loaded it into the magazines and it seems like the length of each round is perfect to the space in the magazine since the head just slightly touches the magazine end but does not dent or deform and the protective lubricant wax is not deformed and stays in tact after removing the rounds.
I am extremely happy that this ammo works reliably and accurately in this pistol and it is very affordable at 0.0557 per bullet. This is my preferred brand of ammo since I use the CCI High-Velocity Mini-Mag Copper Plated Round Nose 40gr .22 LR for my custom Volquartsen rifle and I have been very happy with that ammo also.
Accuracy
The groups that were produced by this gun and ammo combination using only iron sights at 17-yards in-door were great, also thanks to Charelton who's the champion shooter doing the sighting in of the pistol with me. The pistol came with the sights very much off to the bottom-right requiring a move up of 16-clicks and move left of 12-clicks or so. I'm surprised that the previous owner had so much hold-over to the right set on this pistol.
I have three other types of ammo to try out in this gun that I posted above and I'm going to save that ammo until I mount the red dot scope on the pistol to do proper ammo accuracy and reliability testing in it from the bench. I'll also ask Charelton to help me since he has the best aim and the most steady hand of all of us at the range so his help will eliminate shooter error. I'm hoping to get some of that Remington Target ammo also for the testing to include it in among the other types of low-cost ammo.
Iron Sights
The iron sights on this pistol are absolutely amazing. They are very large and wide with the front sight being twice as wide as any normal pistol and the rear leaf sight being practically huge in respect to any other iron sight that I have seen. The sights line up together very well and are easy to keep aligned since the left-to-right alignment is well maintained by just the right amount of space in the sight-picture between the front and rear sight. Also the very wide front and the super long rear leaf sight makes top-to-bottom alignment very easy because there is so much flat space to work with to align the sights easily.
The mechanics of the rear sight are also superb and very well fitted. The two large knobs are very large and easy to move and they produce very defined and accurate clicks on the movements. It was very easy to move the knobs by hand and count off the clicks as we were moving the sights into alignment.
Magazines
The two 5-round used magazines that came with the gun performed flawlessly with the 100-rounds of ammo that we used and they were easy to load and slid flawlessly into the gun. The magazines locked inside the gun very well with a click and they did not produce any problems feeding the CCI ammo with longer OAL. Doing a manual cycle of the slide to eject a round in the chamber also worked flawlessly without any lock-ups or problems, making the gun eject the round in the chamber and the magazine feeding another round without any issue.
Conclusion
Overall I am very happy with this pistol and the short 1-hour time that I spent with it. I'll spend more time with it this weekend and I'll start the adjustment process on the trigger to move it into the perfect position for my large hands.
I will take pictures of it this Saturday to show it off to everyone so stay tuned.
Fit and Finish
The quality and fit of the pistol are absolutely great and the pistol is built very solid. The slide and receiver are very well mated and very tight but move as smooth as butter without any oil. The finish on the pistol is great and looks practically like new except under the bottom of the magazine well that is scratched up and the paint has flaked off. (We found out the reason why the paint is missing only there.)
Weight and Balance
The whole pistol is very large, much larger in size than 1911 .45 ACP pistol, and almost the size of a Magnum Research Desert Eagle .50AE but a shorter barrel. However the pistol is very light for it's size, like picking up a polymer frame Glock pistol, due to the light aluminum alloy used in the frame. Only the barrel and the front barrel shroud seem to be made of the heavier steel and most of the weight is balanced towards the front of the barrel. The balance can be adjusted with the removal of the barrel weights or with the addition of a Red Dot scope that I plan to put on this pistol shortly.
Ammunition
Today I tested 100-rounds of CCI Standard-Velocity 40gr Lead Round Nose .22 LR #0032 ammunition in it and it has performed flawlessly through the pistol without a single malfunction. This ammo has a very long OAL (Over All Length) that some people have mentioned causes problems for this Pardini SP pistol and other .22 LR pistols but I had no problems at all with this ammo. I loaded it into the magazines and it seems like the length of each round is perfect to the space in the magazine since the head just slightly touches the magazine end but does not dent or deform and the protective lubricant wax is not deformed and stays in tact after removing the rounds.
I am extremely happy that this ammo works reliably and accurately in this pistol and it is very affordable at 0.0557 per bullet. This is my preferred brand of ammo since I use the CCI High-Velocity Mini-Mag Copper Plated Round Nose 40gr .22 LR for my custom Volquartsen rifle and I have been very happy with that ammo also.
Accuracy
The groups that were produced by this gun and ammo combination using only iron sights at 17-yards in-door were great, also thanks to Charelton who's the champion shooter doing the sighting in of the pistol with me. The pistol came with the sights very much off to the bottom-right requiring a move up of 16-clicks and move left of 12-clicks or so. I'm surprised that the previous owner had so much hold-over to the right set on this pistol.
I have three other types of ammo to try out in this gun that I posted above and I'm going to save that ammo until I mount the red dot scope on the pistol to do proper ammo accuracy and reliability testing in it from the bench. I'll also ask Charelton to help me since he has the best aim and the most steady hand of all of us at the range so his help will eliminate shooter error. I'm hoping to get some of that Remington Target ammo also for the testing to include it in among the other types of low-cost ammo.
Iron Sights
The iron sights on this pistol are absolutely amazing. They are very large and wide with the front sight being twice as wide as any normal pistol and the rear leaf sight being practically huge in respect to any other iron sight that I have seen. The sights line up together very well and are easy to keep aligned since the left-to-right alignment is well maintained by just the right amount of space in the sight-picture between the front and rear sight. Also the very wide front and the super long rear leaf sight makes top-to-bottom alignment very easy because there is so much flat space to work with to align the sights easily.
The mechanics of the rear sight are also superb and very well fitted. The two large knobs are very large and easy to move and they produce very defined and accurate clicks on the movements. It was very easy to move the knobs by hand and count off the clicks as we were moving the sights into alignment.
Magazines
The two 5-round used magazines that came with the gun performed flawlessly with the 100-rounds of ammo that we used and they were easy to load and slid flawlessly into the gun. The magazines locked inside the gun very well with a click and they did not produce any problems feeding the CCI ammo with longer OAL. Doing a manual cycle of the slide to eject a round in the chamber also worked flawlessly without any lock-ups or problems, making the gun eject the round in the chamber and the magazine feeding another round without any issue.
Conclusion
Overall I am very happy with this pistol and the short 1-hour time that I spent with it. I'll spend more time with it this weekend and I'll start the adjustment process on the trigger to move it into the perfect position for my large hands.
Last edited by JakFrost on Fri Apr 03, 2009 12:11 am, edited 3 times in total.
Some issues to work out...
There are some issues to work out with the accessories of this pistol that I'll be speaking to Larry about tomorrow.
Magazines
The two used 5-round magazines perform flawlessly in the pistol and slide in and out like butter. However, I also purchased 3-new Pardini SP branded magazines and when the pistol was loaded with one of these new magazines the magazine seized up in the magazine well and could not be removed no matter how much hand strength was used from the bottom or two.
I had the range owner help me remove the magazine by using the plastic end of a cleaning brush to push the magazine out of the magazine well and the magazine finally came out. After that we measured the magazines and found that the new magazines are 0.008-inches too large in width on the back rib of the magazine than the older magazines and this is the source of the problem causing them to get stuck.
On the back of the older magazines there is an indentation and a crease where the magazine is made to push the top bullet forward for feeding but on the new magazine there is only a smaller indentation and no crease. This is how you can identify which magazine you have. I will post pictures of both magazines for comparison after Saturday.
(The flaking and damaged bottom of the magazine well was probably caused by the previous owner having the same problem with the tight Pardini magazines but it appears that he took metal tools to pry the magazine out instead of a plastic tool that we used.)
Grip
When I was purchasing this pistol from Larry he instructed me to mail him a tracing of my hand on paper, thumb out, index finger out, and the other three fingers together so that he can fit the proper grip for me. I sent the tracing to him and he informed me that the Rink XXL grip would be the right fit for my hand.
While trying the gun today I had to adjust the palm rest to the minimum setting and at this setting it just barely puts any pressure on my palm. I find myself bending my thumb on the bottom left side of the grip out of the molded area for the thumb just to hold the gun. This is far from a good way to hold the gun.
Unfortunately, it appears that there was a problem with the tracing that I did using a standard US #2 pencil so the grip that I received appears to be too large. I think that the 5mm+ thickness of the pencil added to both sides of the hand magnified the size of my hand and this thickness was not compensated for thus creating the error. The Rink web site that I just found now specifies to use a "thin refill" so that is probably a reason why the tracing was incorrect also.
I just found a web site for Rink Formgriffe grips and followed their instructions and measured the distance between my knuckles on my right hand and it is 90mm on paper and also by placing my hand onto a transparent ruler and looking through it I see that it is 90mm wide at the knuckles. According to the web site's instructions I should use a Medium grip. However, from my comparison to the other people at my range I have larger than normal hands so I think that the large size might also be a choice for me. Additionally there are options to the grip like the Convex / Flat form of the grip and Normal / Thick volume to choose from.
I will have to get more instructions on picking the correct grip for my hand. I wish that there was a dealer in my area with Rink grip so that I could try different ones to get the best fit.
(I will contact Larry to speak to him about the damage to the bottom of the magazine well paint, the issue with the magazines being too large to fit the gun, and also about exchanging the XXL grip for a properly sized one.)
Magazines
The two used 5-round magazines perform flawlessly in the pistol and slide in and out like butter. However, I also purchased 3-new Pardini SP branded magazines and when the pistol was loaded with one of these new magazines the magazine seized up in the magazine well and could not be removed no matter how much hand strength was used from the bottom or two.
I had the range owner help me remove the magazine by using the plastic end of a cleaning brush to push the magazine out of the magazine well and the magazine finally came out. After that we measured the magazines and found that the new magazines are 0.008-inches too large in width on the back rib of the magazine than the older magazines and this is the source of the problem causing them to get stuck.
On the back of the older magazines there is an indentation and a crease where the magazine is made to push the top bullet forward for feeding but on the new magazine there is only a smaller indentation and no crease. This is how you can identify which magazine you have. I will post pictures of both magazines for comparison after Saturday.
(The flaking and damaged bottom of the magazine well was probably caused by the previous owner having the same problem with the tight Pardini magazines but it appears that he took metal tools to pry the magazine out instead of a plastic tool that we used.)
Grip
When I was purchasing this pistol from Larry he instructed me to mail him a tracing of my hand on paper, thumb out, index finger out, and the other three fingers together so that he can fit the proper grip for me. I sent the tracing to him and he informed me that the Rink XXL grip would be the right fit for my hand.
While trying the gun today I had to adjust the palm rest to the minimum setting and at this setting it just barely puts any pressure on my palm. I find myself bending my thumb on the bottom left side of the grip out of the molded area for the thumb just to hold the gun. This is far from a good way to hold the gun.
Unfortunately, it appears that there was a problem with the tracing that I did using a standard US #2 pencil so the grip that I received appears to be too large. I think that the 5mm+ thickness of the pencil added to both sides of the hand magnified the size of my hand and this thickness was not compensated for thus creating the error. The Rink web site that I just found now specifies to use a "thin refill" so that is probably a reason why the tracing was incorrect also.
I just found a web site for Rink Formgriffe grips and followed their instructions and measured the distance between my knuckles on my right hand and it is 90mm on paper and also by placing my hand onto a transparent ruler and looking through it I see that it is 90mm wide at the knuckles. According to the web site's instructions I should use a Medium grip. However, from my comparison to the other people at my range I have larger than normal hands so I think that the large size might also be a choice for me. Additionally there are options to the grip like the Convex / Flat form of the grip and Normal / Thick volume to choose from.
I will have to get more instructions on picking the correct grip for my hand. I wish that there was a dealer in my area with Rink grip so that I could try different ones to get the best fit.
(I will contact Larry to speak to him about the damage to the bottom of the magazine well paint, the issue with the magazines being too large to fit the gun, and also about exchanging the XXL grip for a properly sized one.)
-
Guest
I had a problem with 2 magazines I bought for my 2001 Pardini SP around 3 years ago. With the magazines inserted the bolt wouldn't even close. I waited over a year to get some help (that I never got). I eventually got disgusted and just took a file to them. Now they work just fine, but it still bugs me that I had to play amateur gunsmith with such an expensive gun and a brand new magazine.
Used Gun is Going Back, New Gun is Coming Soon
Exchanging Old for New
After calling Larry's Guns and talking over the issues with them it turns out that the used gun is actually the old frame version of the Pardini SP, not the new model frame as I previously thought, so the magazines will not work in this gun without modification. The option that I was given was for gun to be sent back so that the the receiver would be modified.
I've done my research and found from various forum posts that the old version of the pistol had the receiver frame modified to improve strength since a few people experienced damage or cracking of the old frame. Once I was told that this receiver frame would be modified to make the brand new magazines fit I wasn't so happy to hear that this kind of work would be required on such an expensive gun, especially since it was shipped with these magazines that did not work in it.
Larry offered to take the gun back for a refund with free shipping back but since I want a Pardini SP I suggested that I would like to pay the difference and buy a new model Pardini SP from him. So now this gun is going back next week and I should be receiving a new model once he gets it shipped to him also. So that's how things stand right now and I hope to have the new gun by the following weekend.
Pictures
I took some pictures of this gun with my 2-megapixel phone camera but they look awfully blurry since the nice 7-megapixel Canon camera that I had with me ran out of battery before I could take the pictures. Tomorrow, I'll bring the camera in again to take some nicer pictures before I post them here. The gun just looks too nice to ruin it with bad pictures.
After calling Larry's Guns and talking over the issues with them it turns out that the used gun is actually the old frame version of the Pardini SP, not the new model frame as I previously thought, so the magazines will not work in this gun without modification. The option that I was given was for gun to be sent back so that the the receiver would be modified.
I've done my research and found from various forum posts that the old version of the pistol had the receiver frame modified to improve strength since a few people experienced damage or cracking of the old frame. Once I was told that this receiver frame would be modified to make the brand new magazines fit I wasn't so happy to hear that this kind of work would be required on such an expensive gun, especially since it was shipped with these magazines that did not work in it.
Larry offered to take the gun back for a refund with free shipping back but since I want a Pardini SP I suggested that I would like to pay the difference and buy a new model Pardini SP from him. So now this gun is going back next week and I should be receiving a new model once he gets it shipped to him also. So that's how things stand right now and I hope to have the new gun by the following weekend.
Pictures
I took some pictures of this gun with my 2-megapixel phone camera but they look awfully blurry since the nice 7-megapixel Canon camera that I had with me ran out of battery before I could take the pictures. Tomorrow, I'll bring the camera in again to take some nicer pictures before I post them here. The gun just looks too nice to ruin it with bad pictures.
-
Guest
waste of bandwidth
could this guy possibly waste anymore bandwidth telling us what we already know? all this effort for him to shoot 15 foot targets or whatever he was talking about at the beginning of this saga.
people wonder why no more High Master's post here, this is why.
people wonder why no more High Master's post here, this is why.